Comment

Comment on What are your thoughts on people who say hate speech is free speech?

Hate speech is free speech

So is criticizing the assholes who say it, turnabout it fair play.

There are some cultures, religions, etc. with pretty abhorrent customs that people should be free to criticize, and if you’re not careful with how you craft and apply hate speech laws, people may not be able to speak out against those injustices like they should be.

I’d also rather have the assholes be out in the open about their shitty beliefs. If you’re dumb enough to, for example, fly a Nazi flag at your home, business, on a bumper sticker on your car, etc. that’s convenient for me because I know not to give you business, hire you, stop to help you with a flat tire, give you a friendly wave, etc. If you’re keeping your nazidom in the closet and pretending to be a decent human being, how would I know not to give you the time of day?

I have a tiny bit of a libertarian streak, I’m not a “Big L” libertarian who thinks that roads should be privatized and corporations should be able to do whatever they want, and all of that other bullshit, I like receiving government services when I need them and I’m generally fine with my tax dollars paying for them for others (not that I don’t have some strong criticism about some of what the government does with my taxes)

But I do like individual liberties, and I think that with the right guard rails in place (mostly strong public education and social safety nets to make sure that people can afford to “vote with their wallets” and the ability to make responsible, informed decisions about how they do that, as well as strong limits on corporate power to make sure that there can be alternatives that people can take their money to) capitalism can be a pretty neat and tidy solution to a lot of problems.

In my sort of ideal world if someone is spouting hate speech, they just become a social pariah, no one would want to hire them, no one would buy their products, no one would sell products or services to them, no one would give them a platform or an audience, and when they get up on their soapbox they’d be immediately shouted down off of it by everyone within earshot. And if the local bakery, car dealer ISP, grocery store, energy company, etc. happens to be owned by one of those pieces of shit, it should be within the reach of anyone to start up their own competing company and drive the asshole out of business because given the alternative everyone should want to give their business to them instead of the asshole.

source

Sort:hotnew top

Doomsider@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Propaganda works yo. If you know someone is spreading misinformation it is important to address it otherwise it will grow in popularity.

I think you are under the assumption that perhaps everyone critically examines everything they hear rather than just accepts it. Or perhaps just a general belief in the March of progress will keep things balanced.

Due to barrier to entry you can’t just challenge whatever company or political movement you want. I have always noticed that libertarians think that everything works like a very small town where anyone has the political or business agency to do whatever they want. It is a cute way to view the world for sure.

I don’t think voting by your wallet is effective in practice or even as a political tool. First, the votes are extremely unequal when distributes. Second, companies and politicians routinely ignore consumer preferences wants and needs. Third, it shifts the burden to the individual which hold the least power to affect change unless they are wealthy.

…medium.com/https-pluralistic-net-2025-09-13-cons…

source
- Fondots@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  I think you are under the assumption that perhaps everyone critically examines everything they hear rather than just accepts it.
  
  I’m not under that assumption, that’s why I said that part of the puzzle is strong public education so that people learn that they need to be thinking critically about everything
  
  Due to barrier to entry you can’t just challenge whatever company or political movement you want.
  
  Which is where the stronger social safety nets and limits on corporations come in. If I wanted to start up, let’s say my own ISP to compete with the likes of Verizon and Comcast in my area, that idea would be dead in the water. They’re in charge of a ton of infrastructure that should be public, and have shaped regulations so that it would be nearly impossible for anyone else to break into the market here. That just shouldn’t be the case and that would need to be fixed.
  
  And as it is right now, I don’t have the time or money to invest into that sort of project, because I’m a wage slave that needs my current job to feed myself. With better social safety nets like UBI and affordable housing, I could leave or at least step back from this job and be able to dedicate myself to that, attempt to raise funds to do it (which would be easier because people would be better educated to understand that it’s really needed, and more financially secure themselves to be able to help fund it, plus the increased regulations would mean that banks couldn’t hold their purse strings quite so tightly if I needed loans to make it happen) and recruit others to my cause with the other necessary skills and qualifications to actually implement it.
  
  This couldn’t be an overnight change, if everyone got onboard and actively worked towards it, maybe we’d start to see some tangible signs of things shaping up the way I’m envisioning in 2 or 3 generations. I probably won’t get to live in the world I want to create, we just need to change too much about how people think and act. And a whole lot of the steps to get there are basically socialism, regulations, redistributing wealth, social programs, etc. to make sure that people are on a more even footing and educated enough to understand what their responsibilities are and how to effectively use their money so that we can start slowly peeling back some of the regulations to let people make those decisions for themselves.
  
  source
  - Doomsider@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Strong public education does not necessarily lead to critical thought. I think you are right in the respect people need critical thinking to engage in a civic society that respects human rights.
    
    You are never going to be able to compete with a natural monopoly nor should you need to. I think you touch on, but don’t identify that regulatory capture is the problem. This is a byproduct of corporations getting way to powerful. I have never heard how a libertarian minded person intends to solve this as peeling away the regulation is nonsensical in its description of what is necessary.
    
    I don’t think UBI is going to be the panacea you think it is. It could easily be used as a tool of control much the same way social welfare is handled currently.
    
    Not a lot to disagree with here honestly, a lot of decent thought but very speculative to say the least. I think expecting every human being to have excellent critical thought, a deep understanding of policy, and to be an excellent money manager to boot is a bit unrealistic.
    
    source