Comment on Black coffee

• sness@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Having worked at a fast food burger place, there’s absolutely people that will order a “cheeseburger” and be surprised when there’s cheese. Not many, but it happened to me a couple times. We were also trained that “plain” means no onion and pickle, but leave the ketchup and mustard on as that’s how our PoS defined the term.

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  • Pika@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    if I went to a restaurant and I asked for a plain burger and they still supplied condiments, it’s going back. That’s not what a plain burger is by definition, I’ve only ever gotten plain burgers without condiments though so I haven’t experienced this. I assume they did it that way as a “well if they wanted no condiments they would specify dry” but thats still an off case.

    I don’t agree with normalizing to the niche/off cases. Definitions in the field should be what people generally expect. In most of the english speaking world, a black coffee means no milk/cream, usually no sugar, I could understand them adding sugar to it, although it would annoy me, but to add milk to a black coffee is not explainable.

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• klugerama@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  OK, sure, they should know. I agree, but it takes absolutely minimal effort to add “no cream no sugar” when you order.

  You can be stubborn and insist that you shouldn’t have to endure the trauma of all that extra effort on your part so that you can get the wrong order and then complain about it.

  There are many fast food places (in the US South, particularly) where you can order a Coke, and they’ll ask you what kind. Because saying “coke” to some people just means “soda”, not necessarily “Coca-Cola”.

  I’m saying it’s a psychological thing. Coffee is black, so when someone says “black coffee”, it may not click in the barista’s mind that they actually want percolated/drip coffee with no cream or sugar. All they hear is the coffee part, and so they serve it the way most people want/expect it.

  Ultimately they should ask, even if you say “black”. I’ve worked fast food, and so many people just don’t know how to even order the things they want. But if they don’t ask, you - as the customer - should be able to make it clear. What do you get out of not clarifying?

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  • Pika@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    To me, it’s more I wouldn’t want to sound weird to everyone else around me. Asking for a black coffee with no cream or sugar is to the same effect of saying “hi yes I would like scrambled eggs cooked please”.

    If I went to my bank teller and said “Yea I would like to cash this check please” you aren’t expected to have to say “I would like to cash this check back as cash please”

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    • klugerama@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      For all the examples you listed, how often is the result wrong to to lack of communication? Have you ever ordered scrambled eggs and received them uncooked, because they didn’t understand what scrambled means? Have you ever asked to cash a check, and the bank teller gave you…something other than cash?

      Those are examples of things that don’t require clarification, ever. Because there is no variation of those that is even slightly common. No one ever says they want scrambled eggs raw. No one ever asks to cash a check in any other way than to receive cash. There’s no common precedent for a mistake here.

      But black coffee is, evidently, just enough of a fuzzy area that it happens sometimes. I guarantee you that people order black coffee with cream and sugar, because they either think “black coffee” means “coffee” or because they think saying “black coffee” means “drip coffee” and distinguishes it from espresso.

      Yes, it shouldn’t be a problem, but it is a problem. So where’s the harm in changing how you order it and saying “coffee no cream no sugar” instead of “black coffee”? Just don’t say black coffee and it won’t sound redundant.

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      • Pika@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        I understand your point but, I see black coffee to fall under the same area.

        A black coffee is exactly that, when you modify it it’s no longer a black coffee. Just like if you say you are cashing a check but you want to deposit it instead, that’s depositing a check not cashing it. When you add a modifier to a word like that, the expectation is that the modifier is honored.

        I don’t see a precedent where a black coffee should be able to be misconstrued. I can understand your example of the drip coffee, but people saying that are going to just use “drip coffee”, “coffee”, “normal coffee” or any other phrase that isn’t already an existing product in the world. And if it is misconstrued by the consumer, that is the customers problem, and if they receive the wrong product they will realize the issue and fix it for next time.

        You could change how you order it but, the fact is it shouldn’t be required for an establishment to provide what is ordered. The barista not knowing what a black coffee is, at the end of the day is a failure on the establishment, and indicates the employee likely wasn’t trained adequately for the job. Forcing the consumer to change how they order may help the customer, but it isn’t going to help the underlining issue which is that the barista doesn’t know what “black coffee” means.

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