And now because of it I need to get cheese taken out of a plastic cage.
Comment on Shopworker sacked for tackling suspected bacon thief
Zombie@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Zombie@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
No. People trying to maximise profit from basic human requirements is why you need to get cheese taken out of a plastic cage.
Not the poor trying to feed themselves.
Get a grip of your priorities. The management and executives of Tesco, Sainsburys, M&S, Asda, Lidl, Aldi, etc are doing just fine, unlike the people having to risk a criminal record, arrest, public shame, and in some cases physical assault for £4 worth of bacon.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
It’s cheaper not to use the cage. But they do because luxury goods keep getting nicked. It’s the expensive products that go in a cage first. You don’t need brandy, yet that ends up in a cage.
I actually don’t want to live in a society rife with theft.
Zombie@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
You already live in a society rife with theft. You’re just propagandised from birth not to see it.
Yes, you are right: the law forbids theft.
If I should steal something from you, you can call a policeman and have me arrested. The law will punish the thief, and the government will return to you the stolen property, if possible, because the law forbids stealing. It says that no one has a right to take anything from you without your consent.
But your employer takes from you what you produce. The whole wealth produced by labor is taken by the capitalists and kept by them as their property.
The law says that your employer does not steal anything from you, because it is done with your consent. You have agreed to work for your boss for certain pay, he to have all that you produce. Because you consented to it, the law says that he does not steal anything from you.
But did you really consent?
When the highwayman holds his gun to your head, you turn your valuables over to him. You ‘consent’ all right, but you do so because you cannot help yourself, because you are compelled by his gun.
Are you not compelled to work for an employer? Your need compels you, just as the highwayman’s gun. You must live, and so must your wife and children. You can’t work for yourself; under the capitalist industrial system you must work for an employer. The factories, machinery, and tools belong to the employing class, so you must hire yourself out to that class in order to work and live. Whatever you work at, whoever your employer may be, it always comes to the same: you must work for him. You can’t help yourself. You are compelled.
In this way the whole working class is compelled to work for the capitalist class. In this manner the workers are compelled to give up all the wealth they produce. The employers keep that wealth as their profit, while the worker gets only a wage, just enough to live on, so he can go on producing more wealth for his employer. Is that not cheating, robbery?
The law says it is a ‘free agreement’. Just as well might the highwayman say that you ‘agreed’ to give up your valuables. The only difference is that the highwayman’s way is called stealing and robbery, and is forbidden by law. While the capitalist way is called business, industry, profit making, and is protected by law.
But whether it is done in the highwayman’s way or in the capitalist way, you know that you are robbed.
The whole capitalist system rests on such robbery.
The whole system of law and government upholds and justifies this robbery.
That’s the order of things called capitalism, and law and government are there to protect this order of things.
Do you wonder that the capitalist and employer, and all those who profit by this order of things, are strong for ‘law and order’?
But where do you come in? What benefit have you from that kind of ‘law and order’? Don’t you see that this ‘law and order’ only robs you, fools you, and just enslaves you?
‘Enslave me?’ you wonder. ‘Why, I am a free citizen!’
Are you free, really? Free to do what? To live as you please? To do what you please?
Let’s see. How do you live? What does your freedom amount to?
You depend on your employer for your wages or your salary, don’t you? And your wages determine your way of living, don’t they? The conditions of your life, even what you eat and drink, where you go and with whom you associate, — all of it depends on your wages.
No, you are not a free man. You are dependent on your employer and on your wages. You are really a wage slave.
The whole working class, under the capitalist system, is dependent on the capitalist class. The workers are wage slaves.
So, what becomes of your freedom? What can you do with it? Can you do more with it than your wages permit?
Can’t you see that your wage — your salary or income — is all the freedom that you have? Your freedom, your liberty, don’t go a step further than the wages you get.
The freedom that is given you on paper, that is written down in law books and constitutions, does not do you a bit of good. Such freedom only means that you have the right to do a certain thing. But it doesn’t mean that you can do it. To be able to do it, you must have the chance, the opportunity. You have a right to eat three fine meals a day, but if you haven’t the means, the opportunity to get those meals, then what good is that right to you?
So freedom really means opportunity to satisfy your needs and wants. If your freedom does not give you that opportunity, than it does you no good. Real freedom means opportunity and well-being. If it does not mean that, it means nothing.
You see, then, that the whole situation comes to this:
Capitalism robs you and makes a wage slave of you.
The law upholds and protects that robbery.
The government fools you into believing that you are independent and free.
In this way you are fooled and duped every day of your life.
But how does it happen that you didn’t think of it before? How is it that most other people don’t see it, either?
It is because you and every one else are lied to about this all the time, from your earliest childhood.
You are told to be honest, while you are being robbed all your life.
You are commanded to respect the law, while the law protects the capitalist who is robbing you.
You are taught that killing is wrong, while the government hangs and electrocutes people and slaughters them in war.
You are told to obey the law and government, though law and government stand for robbery and murder.
Thus all through life you are lied to, fooled, and deceived, so that it will be easier to make profits out of you, to exploit you.
Again from Now and After, Chapter 3: Law and Government. Available to read for free here.
ProIsh@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
People generally steal because they need to. There’s theft because basic needs are so damn hard.
Would you steal? No? Why not? It’s it because you don’t need to.
Zombie@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
Look at that poor boy, for instance, on the street corner there. He is ragged, pale, and half-starved. He sees another boy, the son of wealthy parents, and that boy wears nice clothes, he is well fed, and he does not even deign to play with the poor kid. The ragged boy is angry at him he resents and hates the rich boy. And everywhere the poor boy goes he experiences the same thing: he is ignored and scorned, often kicked about — he feels people don’t think him as good as the rich boy, to whom every one is respectful and attentive. The poor boy gets embittered. And when he grows up, he again sees the same thing: the rich are admired and respected, the poor are kicked about and looked down upon. So the poor boy gets to hate his poverty, and he thinks of how he might become rich, get money, and he tries to get it in any way he can, by taking advantage of others, as others have always taken advantage of him, by cheating and lying, and sometimes even by committing crime.
Then you say that he is ‘bad’. But don’t you see what made him bad? Don’t you see that the conditions of his whole life have made him what he is? And don’t you see that the system which keeps up such conditions is a greater criminal than the petty thief? The law will step in and punish him, but is it not the same law that permits those bad conditions to exist and upholds the system that makes criminals?
Think it over and see if it is not the law itself, the government which really creates crime by compelling people to live in conditions that make them bad. See how law and government uphold and protect the biggest crime of all, the mother of all crimes, the capitalistic wage system, and then proceeds to punish the poor criminal.
Consider: does it make any difference whether you do wrong protected by the law, or whether you do it unlawfully? The thing is the same and the effects are the same. Worse even: legal wrongdoing is the greater evil because it causes more misery and injustice than illegal wrong. Lawful crime goes on all the time; it is not punishable and it is made easy, while unlawful crime is not so frequent and is more limited in its scope and effect.
Who causes more misery: the rich manufacturer reducing the wages of thousands of workers to swell his profits, or the jobless man stealing something to keep from starving?
from Now and After by Alexander Berkman, Chapter 4: How the System Works. Available to read for free here.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
There is a difference between stealing luxury goods and stealing a loaf of bread.
People do steal essentials as well, but it is much less of an issue as they don’t need to put potatoes in a cage. Meanwhile brandy, cheese, steak are the products that are secured against theft.
Zombie@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
“Luxury” goods.
The story you’re commenting on was packets of bacon.
Anark@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
CEO’s account for this, that’s why they still make profits. Redistributed goods isn’t a bad thing, considering the amount of money supermarket companies have stolen over the decades.
FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
I say this a lot but in general theyre not stealing it to eat, theyre stealing large amounts of high value meat to sell it on down the pub.
Theyre actually preventing people from buying good food by nicking it all. We are not talking about someone taking one loaf of bread because theyre hungry.
NatakuNox@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
What pub is buying random meat from people off the street? What person would do that, let alone a business. Ps people need protein
fakeman_pretendname@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
The pub doesn’t buy it, the customers in the pub buy it. It’s been pretty common (in places I’ve lived) for decades - traditionally it was heroin users stealing and selling.
It’s not as common now, as there’s fewer pubs and they’re a lot more expensive (and richer people are less likely to want cash-in-hand stolen bacon), and everyone buys things with trackable card payments - but when I was younger, bacon, cheese, perfume, cigarettes, casettes, CDs, DVDs etc could all be bought off “smackies” at your local pub.
NatakuNox@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
So a apparently decades long black market for food doesn’t alarm you… Doesn’t tell you anything about society. More expensive items. I’m sure things that don’t need to be refrigerated are a bigger problem.
Zeppo@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Some Businesses do buy stolen meat or supplies. There just has to be a crooked kitchen manager or owner who knows a guy. Of course they’d like to save 50%.
NatakuNox@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
But my point is the problem is in the system(s) that allows for things to get so bad people are stealing and buying stolen goods to get by. Even more so when there’s more than enough to go around. No one was going to go hungry in the UK because food is being stolen. People are going hungry because of society has become pay to win.