But you are not the justice system, you are an individual.
Are you defending Trump every time someone says he’s a rapist? If a cop kills a black guy out of racism, but is found innocent by the court, do you defend him? What about DSK in Europe, that raped a maid for no reason, but wasn’t found guilty because he had a lot of money and influence, yet bribed her after the trial with a huge amount of money so that she doesn’t appeal? What about Matzneff in France, who gets rewards for books where he explains in details how he raped a lot of kids and loved it, do you defend him? All these people are innocent, in the view of the justice system.
If you say no to those, then where do you draw the line? Where is the point where suddenly, the justice system becomes your guide?
Innocent until proven guilty is a huge basis of the justice system, yes. But you supporting victims that declare they have been raped, whether or not the perpetrator has been judged and condemned, is not going to change the justice system.
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 14 hours ago
There’s a big stretch between claiming on a case by case basis that justice has been miscarried, and making a flat out statement that all accused rapists are guilty, which is what your statement would mean.
Solumbran@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Justice is generally not carried at all for rape accusations, cases are not even recorded and cops tell victims “I would have done the same, shut up slut”.
I am also not saying that all accused rapists are guilty, but that you should believe the victims unless you have strong evidence of the opposite. Just like you should believe victims of discriminations that explain it to you, instead of saying “I don’t see it so it doesn’t exist”. The concept is the same, you side with the side that is being treated unfairly, not the opposite.
How many cases of rape accusations do you know, that seem fake, compared to how many seem justified, and how many of those end up with the perpetrator condemned (or even judged)?
Believing victims doesn’t bring anything bad, it just gives you a mindset that allows you to see further than the rape culture that society is drowned in. And when someone is accused by 20 people of rape, instead of immediately thinking “these 20 people are greedy liars that are just preying on this poor, innocent celebrity”, you start wondering how you can get 20 people to go through the humiliation of declaring themselves victims of rape, which is seen as shameful (for some reason), without having done anything wrong.
And also, ask women (not only, but statistically it’s a sad fact) around you if they’ve ever been assaulted, raped, or whatnot. Even though most probably wouldn’t want to tell you, statistically I guarantee that a bunch of them went through something like that and never talked about it. Your reaction is typically why, they know that without hard proof (which generally doesn’t exist) people will immediately believe the assaulter instead. And according to your stance, if your mother tells you she’s been assaulted 30 years ago, your answer would be “Do you have proof? Why have you waited for so long? Is the perpetrator famous?”. But of course you wouldn’t react like that, because once it’s someone that you know and respect (I mean, I don’t know your relationship with your mother), you realize how hard it is for them to go through that, and that even talking about it is a big sacrifice.
So basically: if you don’t believe the victims by default, then you believe the rapists by default. And society already defends the rapists. So yeah, I’m not going to wait for a court to give their judgement to have an opinion, and without any strong evidence that the victim would be lying (which basically never happens), I’m going to side with them.
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 11 hours ago
You’re a rapist.
Onus is now on you to prove otherwise. Good thing negatives are so easy to prove.
sportsjorts@lemmy.zip 10 hours ago
I get what you’re saying but you are on the wrong side of this m. Rape cases in America are systematic dismissed buried lost corrupted or flat out ignored. It’s a serious epidemic and the amount of lives ruined by false accusations pales in comparison to the amount of victims that come forward and the amount of those who are too afraid to come forward.
Also you can always appeal your case. Victims have no recourse and now voice the majority of a time. It’s not even close to comparable. It’s almost like voter fraud with the amount of cases where someone has lied about being raped.
Solumbran@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Wow, rapist supporters always have this shitty “argument” that never works. Are you so scared of being accused of rape?
Anyways, this doesn’t work because there is a pretty big amount of reasons to not believe you here (duh). And in the case someone accused me seriously and credibly of rape, then yeah, I would expect people who don’t have evidence pointing one way or another to believe the victim. Sorry, you might be used to your sense of selfishness altering your moral beliefs but it doesn’t work here.
Also, even if I were a rapist as you said, it would not bear any weight in my argument that victims should be believed. If anything, if even rapists were saying that, it would just prove my point even more.
You’re just using the same pathetic attack that everyone who tries to defend rapists ends up using. Are you all brainwashed clones, or just one guy with a lot of fake accounts?
And nice link, but
20 accusers is a form of evidence, but not 1 accuser? Then how many is evidence, two? Three? And according to your argument, evidence doesn’t matter since what matters is innocence until proof of guilt, which implies being judged and condemned. Unless you consider that you have the authority to decide who is guilty and who isn’t, and then your whole initial point doesn’t exist.
Of course you believe your family, but why? Because families never lie? No, it’s just that you respect your family and you understand that claiming to having been raped is a challenge on its own. Yet you consider that if a stranger does it, they’re lying unless they can prove it. That’s called being a self-centered jerk.
In the case of an opposition between two unbalanced sides, not deciding is siding with the more powerful side. If you see a nazi in the street beating up a black guy, and you think “I’m not going to take a decision because maybe the black guy started the fight, I don’t have enough information to defend either side”, you’re not neutral, you’re a nazi supporter. Same if you hear a black guy say that he’s been beaten up by a nazi without proof of it, and you decide to stay “neutral”. Once again, that’s a stance that is known to be wrong and to favour the oppressors.
I really need to just write a book that debunks the stupid pro-rapists arguments and send it to all of your group whenever you send a comment, I’m sick of having to write the same things every few months because you and your clones are so scared that someone would accuse you of rape or something. Always the same bullshit over and over, the “you are a rapist. Now prove that you’re not” sentence written almost word by word, all that crap that even a 10 years old would be able to debunk but that for some reason resonates in all the rapists defenders.
What goes through your mind, really? “But what if people say that I raped them”? Because I never felt threatened by that, but maybe that’s because I know that I never raped anyone.