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Comment on .ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this

You don’t seem to understand what Marx means by dictatorship of the proletariat. His idea of implementation of the dictatorship of the proletariat was the Paris Commune, which had universal suffrage, elected and immediately recallable delegates (a better and more democratic concept that the political clownshow we have in parliamentary democracy). I suggest reading past the name of the concept before talking nonsense.

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lbfgs@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
Marxism is not the same as Marxism-Leninism. Marx might have had Paris commune as his idea of dictatorship of the proletariat, though it was all theoretical. Lenin’s take was the first implementation of the idea which was way more hardline (Red Terror) as seen in incidents like the purge of the Left SRs.

Whether Lenin’s actions were justified it’s a different matter (and tankies will certainly say they were) but ironically Tankies typically won’t dispute that Lenin wasn’t dictatorial. Rather, often they will point to talking points taken out of What is to be done? to justify why those actions were needed (i.e. the official CPSU party line).

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- AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  
  Marxism is not the same as Marxism-Leninism
  
  A flat earther explains how tides wor
  
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- frisbird@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  You have a misunderstanding. Your first comment stated that Marxism-Leninism calls for a DotP. When confronted with Marx’s position, you said that ML and Marxism are not the same, indicating you believe that Marxism does call for a DotP. This is incorrect. Marx coined the term in 1850 when he was writing about the French Revolution.
  
  Yes, Lenin produced the first functioning theory of revolution and found himself in the conditions for revolution to actually occur. And what he found was that the revolution was immediately under siege from the West (even the US invaded) and that the previous power structure was willing to engage in terror campaigns to destroy the revolution. This has been demonstrated to be the way revolutions always go, and in fact is how prior revolutions, like the French and the American revolutions went, and the Haitian revolution if you want a non-white example.
  
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  - lbfgs@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    
    indicating you believe that Marxism does call for a DotP
    
    Obviously? Here it is, right from the horse’s mouth:
    
    What I did that was new was to prove: (1) that the existence of classes is only bound up with particular historical phases in the development of production (historische Entwicklungsphasen der Production), (2) that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat,[1] (3) that this dictatorship itself only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society .
    
    And of course so was Lenin, decrying “Bernsteinism”:
    
    Denied was the fact of growing impoverishment, the process of proletarisation, and the intensification of capitalist contradictions; the very concept, “ultimate aim”, was declared to be unsound, and the idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat was completely rejected. Denied was the antithesis in principle between liberalism and socialism. Denied was the theory of the class struggle, on the alleged grounds that it could not be applied to a strictly democratic society governed according to the will of the majority, etc.
    
    I don’t even get ypur objection here. Are you implying Marx did not call for DOTP or are you claiming I didn’t say Marx did not call for DOTP? My point was that both call for DOTP but Lenin’s version of it was the only one that was realized, that it turned out to be rather brutal, and that tankies (like you just did!) don’t even distance themselves from it but embrace it. Which was the entire point in the OP.
    
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    frisbird@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    Sorry. I made a typo and have just corrected it. Yes, it looked like you were saying that only MLism called for a DotP.
    
    The idea that implementing a DotP was brutal is a narrative. Brutal compared to what, is the question. Because what all of those revolutions have in common is that the ruling class was already extremely brutal. The DotP reversed the brutality and made it very obvious to people because it wasn’t interested in masking it. But the reality is that all the DotPs saved more people than it killed.
    
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- Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  Marxism-Leninism is Marxism taken to the era of imperialism, as Marxism is not a stagnant ideology of one man but an entire living field of study.
  
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- Tolc@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  “dictatorship” is not wrong everytime. Now what?
  
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  - lbfgs@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    The dictatorship of Fabius in 217BC saved Rome’s ass after the defeats in 218BC, I will give you that.
    
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    Tolc@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    Lol
    
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