Comment on We're so back
TheDankMemegician36@thelemmy.club 3 days agoThats crazy, must be why all those news organizations had to make up stories about people going untreated from gun shot wounds because the hospitals were overwhelmed with people overdosing on ivermectin.
I remember the chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association Haruo Ozaki publicly recommending the use of ivermectin for treating covid based on several observational studies but I dont remember either of the people who won the Nobel prize for ivermectin ever publicly stating anything about its use in treating covid.
Muehe@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
One of them specifically said it’s not his area of expertise:
drew.edu/…/drew-university-nobel-prize-winner-ref…
A lot of people said a lot of things during the early days of the pandemic. The current consensus seems to be it only helps if you have Covid and also a coincidental worm infection that the ivermectin treats. Which is often true sadly on large parts of the planet.
TheDankMemegician36@thelemmy.club 2 days ago
So I should ask the Nobel prize winner to find out he doesn’t have an opinion on the matter and that is supposed to be evidence that it doesn’t work?
Haruo Ozaki made his recommendation to use Ivermectin as a treatment for covid on February 9th, 2021. Not exactly “early days” of the pandemic. It was well over a year into the virus spreading and nearly a year into it officially being a pandemic.
As far as I can tell there is no “current consensus” regarding Ivermectin outside of the mainstream narrative that its “deboonked conservative quackery”. Looking into it further there seems to be one side that is willing to point to clinical data like Haruo did when making his recommendation and one side reflexively demonizing it as “horse paste” because the main stream media told them that hospitals were “overflowing” with “ivermectin overdoses”. Its only when pushed that they then point to these more recent studies that supposedly “definitively show” ivermectine is ineffective.
Coincidently, only one of these positions seems to have a financial incentive for big pharma but im sure that’s not relevant to the conversation.
Looking at the timeline of events regarding Ivermectin there isnt a single study from before the topic became a political issue that found it to be ineffective. As soon as it became a political topic of contention however we suddenly get several studies with dubious funding(all of which can be traced to certain key players who stood to gain financially from ivermectines being found ineffective) and questionalble methodology like using much lower and more infrequent dosing saying that its ineffective…but as with much of the conversation surrounding the vid we get “the experts agree”, “the consensus is” and my favorite “the science is settled”.
Anyone who’s actually looked into the matter and is honest would conclude that at best, we still dont actually know whether its effective or not because the more recent studies on the matter seem to have gone out of their way to ensure that any effect from the ivermectin wouldn’t be found.
Muehe@lemmy.ml 19 hours ago
No you should take it as evidence that what the person answering you before me said, that Ivermectin is not intended for use against Coronaviruses, or any viruses for that matter, is true. There was a false quote from Campbell floating around on social media and he publicly disclaimed it. Ivermectin is not an antiviral, its intended use are roundworm infections. That was the point of OPs comment I believe.
Well you know, relatively speaking it’s early days, we are in year 6 now. Kind of besides the point really. Anyway I think I tracked down the (second-hand) quote from Haruo from some pro-Ivermectin website:
brightworkresearch.com/how-the-media-lied-about-j…
You will note here that he specifically refers to parasite infections, i.e. worms. He could just be saying “Hey if your Covid patient has worms, maybe take care of that first”.
On a side note the Tokyo Medical Association seems to be a private company, not a public medical authority. Japan did recommend and distribute vaccines as soon as they became available.
It’s a bit more complicated than that, but if you want a one sentence summary I guess it fits. It was a meme that mostly conservatives seem to have fallen for.
Any specifics you can share? Like I said above, it seems Haruo was referring to worm infections and was taken out of context.
Lol, who do you think sells Ivermectin? Small pharma?
That’s untrue AFAIK, but anyway - My original point was that most of the studies that showed a positive effect came from places with relatively high incidences of roundworm infections. And it just makes sense that if you use ivermectin to treat a pre-existing worm infection it will help a patients immune system to fight an additional later Coronavirus infection. There was a false signal in the data and people just ran with it. No need for big (or small) pharma conspiracy here…
That alleged recommendation from Haruo Ozaki you keep quoting for example is five years old now, and specifically citing “parts of Africa” (many of which have a relatively high incidence of roundworm infections).
Or maybe they are showing no effect because there is no effect (except in patients with a pre-existing roundworm infection, which Ivermectin is meant to treat). Sorry but unless you have something more concrete I’m sticking with my “people were panicking and grasping at straws” perspective.