Why do you think things need a more complex explanation?
Do you really feel like this Iran incursion is somehow significant feeling compared to Iraq or Afghanistan?
Do you actually think that the hegemonic status of the US really enters into the consideration of most people, to say nothing of having a significant impact on their emotions? Do you think an awareness of that would actually make people feel better?
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GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca 2 days agoThat is indeed a simpler explanation. Much too simple.
I’m not saying people are nihilistic because of a loss of American influence in the global south, I’m saying they’re being nihilistic because they don’t see anything good happening. This extends to the current situation with the global south because you don’t see any “good guys”, you just see evil vs. evil. You said it yourself: “shitbags vs. shitbags”. You don’t have perspective.
Don’t see this as me calling you out, think of it as a good faith attempt to enlighten you.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Because the explanation is more complex. Things aren’t the way they are for no reason, there’s historical context and theoretical frameworks that allow you to understand how and why the world came to be as it is, and how it is likely to change. If you understand this, then you also know not only that things are not going to be this way forever, you know that the world is changing right now. That we are closer to liberation than you think.
Knowledge is power, and understanding the world also means that you are more able to change it.
Do you really feel like this Iran incursion is somehow significant feeling compared to Iraq or Afghanistan?
The Iran situation is more significant than Iraq or Afghanistan, because Iran is going to win. This is a far worse situation for the United States government than both Iraq and Afghanistan combined, because it is breaking their aura of invincibility. They aren’t being slowly exhausted in a guerilla war, they’re being struck both militarily and economically by a country they haven’t even invaded, and will not be able to invade.
Do you actually think that the hegemonic status of the US really enters into the consideration of most people, to say nothing of having a significant impact on their emotions? Do you think an awareness of that would actually make people feel better?
You’re mixing up what is and what should be. No, most Americans don’t particularly care about the world outside their borders. If people understood that the power of the US government, of Donald Trump and his cronies, was based on American global hegemony - on the empire - and they further understood that that hegemony was crumbling and is indeed at a breaking point, they would understand that there is plenty reason to be hopeful.
Your oppressors, who are also the world’s oppressors, are being defeated! They depend both at home and abroad on the illusion of invincibility and the illusion that nothing will ever change. Those illusions are more broken today than they were yesterday, and were more broken yesterday than the day before. In the coming weeks and months, they will continue to break.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
I think you’re gravely exaggerating the significance of the iran war we currently have. The resources brought to force and the scale of losses are miniscule, and there’s no grounds to even say what “winning” is for either side.
That’s entirely aside from the point though. You’re arguing the a crack in the facade of hegemony is more responsible for emotional distress than a stark reminder that your next door neighbors are horrible bigots. That people should be comforted that people they don’t know will lose power.
Will Trump losing power make my neighbor not think we should hang trans people?
Will a loss of US influence in global affairs cause us to build a social safety net?
Will embarrassing the US military spur a wave of environmental reforms?The answer is “no”, because why would it?
I think you’re thinking about global politics a lot, and assuming it must be on everyone else’s mind as well.
I don’t think you actually know why people are exhausted and depressed, and you sure as shit don’t know what would improve that.GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca 21 hours ago
Ok, to start we’re going to have to go over the military situation, because you’re really not informed about it. This dovetails very well with my original point, that people tend to despair due to a lack of knowledge rather than too much.
The US has already verifiably lost billions of dollars worth of equipment - I say verifiably because the media censorship is very heavy. Was the USS Gerry Ford really crippled by a laundry fire? hard to say. But they’ve definitely lost a bunch of very expensive radars, including an E-3 Sentry AWACS aircraft, representing 1/16 of the entire fleet. These planes are a very high value target, and they are literally irreplaceable due to being out of production and having their successor cancelled. This is the first time the US has ever lost an AWACS to hostile fire. They’ve also lost a lot of tanker aircraft, which are also irreplaceable (though available in larger numbers), and which are vital to America’s ability to hit Iran.
Iran is striking US assets in the region effectively and at will. Once again, this is the first time this has happened - post WW2, no US enemy has every been able to hit the US military, consistently, before an invasion has even been attempted. Conversely, the US’s ability to hit Iran is continually degrading because they’re exhausting their stocks of standoff weaponry, which are very expensive and low production. Without standoff weapons (long range cruise missiles), US and Isreli aircraft have to fly deeper into Iran, exposing them to anti-aircraft fire.
But this is all beside the main point. The crux of this war is the strait of Hormuz and its position as a chokepoint for a large proportion of the world’s oil and natural gas. Iran has a knife to the throat of the global economy, and even more importantly, the petrodollar. The petrodollar is a cornerstone of US hegemony because it does most of the work in maintaining the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. As long as Iran is able to keep the strait closed to US aligned shipping, they’ve won, and it doesn’t look like the US has much chance of opening the strait up.
Now for the other particulars:
That’s entirely aside from the point though. You’re arguing the a crack in the facade of hegemony is more responsible for emotional distress than a stark reminder that your next door neighbors are horrible bigots.
You’re misinterpreting my argument. I didn’t say that America losing is the cause for emotional distress, I said that it should be the cause of great hope, but liberals who don’t understand imperialism just have a nihilistic and despairing outlook due to this lack of understanding. Yes, your neighbours are nazi bigots, but they’re also losing.
Will Trump losing power make my neighbor not think we should hang trans people? Will a loss of US influence in global affairs cause us to build a social safety net? Will embarrassing the US military spur a wave of environmental reforms?
The answer to all of those is “hopefully yes”. The bigotry of your neighbours is not some intractable inherent evil, it’s been instilled in them by a propaganda machine that uses social issues to keep the public divided and unable to unite in their shared interests, such as, as you mentioned, a social safety net. As American power degrades, so will the efficacy of its propaganda.
Regarding the environmental issue, the answer is a full-throated “yes!” The massive decline in the availability of fossil fuels caused by the closure of the strait is accelerating the green transition.
I think you’re thinking about global politics a lot, and assuming it must be on everyone else’s mind as well. I don’t think you actually know why people are exhausted and depressed, and you sure as shit don’t know what would improve that.
Once aghain, you’re feeding into my main point. No, American liberals do not think about geopolitics, you think about American politics, and American politics are fucking dire. I am not disagreeing with you in any way on that. Your country is filled with vile Nazis, you live in an economic pressure cooker where a run of bad luck could lead you to becoming homeless, and any kind of change seems remote and unlikely. These things are all true.
What I’m trying to get across is that the US government’s power is premised on being the global hegemon, and that hegemony being under attack also means the state’s power is under attack. In 1905, when Russia humiliatingly lost a war against Japan (a non-European power, so this came as a huge shock), the result was a wave of strikes, revolts, and mutinies that resulted in a revolution - the end of Tsarist autocracy, the establishment of a constitutional monarchy, and a broad democratization. There is plenty of precedent for a humiliating defeat being the catalyst for change.
In any case, you’re still taking a very American-centric view. Ok, suppose that the loss of global hegemony doesn’t result in anything getting better for Americans. So? There’s an entire world out there with billions of people, as opposed to your country of 350 million. If Americans can’t use this opportunity to better their lot, the world still gets the imperial boot off its neck.
baines@piefed.social 2 days ago
people openly supporting nazi’s are indeed simply shitbags
and yes non shitbags are sad to see people suffer, that is called empathy, it is only confusing to the shitbag party in the US because they generally lack said empathy
GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca 2 days ago
Yeah, definitely, but the world is much more complex than that. The current state of affairs is a result of historical contingency, and it isn’t going to last forever. As I have attempted to get across, the tide is already changing.
baines@piefed.social 2 days ago
x to doubt
GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Feel free to think that the world is simple and unchanging - the bad guys are in power and always will be. That’s what they want you to think, after all, so why shouldn’t you? It’s out of your hands now. Americans could have changed America, and they still can, but not with that stupid defeatist attitude. The world will change without you, and you will be left in the dust.