Comment on Huge swings to ONP, against Libin today's SA election, small swing against ALP, towards Greens

• eureka@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  over my dead body do i want phon in, but how do i tell labor what i want? i did that putting greens first previously, am i not right to do the same here?

  Voting is an extremely vague way to “tell Labor” anything, whether by voting Green, Reason, Shooters, Socialist or PHON. I assume their reaction to a rise in PHON would be to double down on anti-immigration rhetoric, not to repress Islam. (I’m not exactly sure what you envision, policy-wise, when you say “anti-Islam”)

  But you raise a great question - how do you tell Labor what you want? Voting doesn’t send a clear message, nor are any of our votes individually worth much at all. And specifically to Labor, their own rank-and-file majority have been overruled by the Albanese leadership on some very significant matters. If their own members are struggling to be heard, I don’t recommend that as a way to sway Labor either - I believe some other “left” parties have working representation, but from discussions I’ve had with Labor members at pubs, I don’t have faith in their internal democracy. It comes down to other forms of power.

  So, we organise to gain power for ourselves - for Labor in particular, a major example is through worker unions with the power to combine resources and ultimately to withdraw labour. In fact, this is how major historical wins were made in anti-racism laws here, or eviction protections for renters, and even lots of Whitlam’s infamous social policies - governments did fuck-all until unions put pressure on them. Same with other wins like the Green Bans. And it’s not just worker unions, but other forms of collective action, like Erskineville’s Road Wars which have probably saved many lived by now.

  The bottom line is obvious: telling a gigantic political party of millions what you want requires more than just voting.

  source

  • Eyekaytee@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Damn we’re off to a bad start

    Voting is an extremely vague way to “tell Labor” anything

    I completely disagree with this, voting is the main way to show support to a political party and it’s platform, if you’re not getting votes it’s pretty clear people don’t agree with what you’re offering

    Labor are still butthurt over Bill Shorten trying to reduce house prices 7 years ago and losing an unlosable election because of it, just like how businesses ultimately listen to money and your biggest weapon is where you spend your money, politicians listen to votes and your biggest weapon is where your vote goes

    You can see the impact PHON has, even though they only got a tiny % of the pie in SA the big parties are keenly aware of them and why people are voting for them

    “I also think we saw Labor voters moving to One Nation,” he said.

    Mr Malinauskas dodged questions about any future federal pivot, stating he was “very grateful” to be Premier. But he had a message for his federal and state colleagues.

    “You’ve got to make sure that, first and foremost, the economic settings are right to ensure that a growing economy doesn’t leave people behind and actually delivers a dividend for more people to have a degree of prosperity in their lives,” he said.

    …yahoo.com/coalition-election-policy-rethink-open…

    ---

    And specifically to Labor, their own rank-and-file majority have been overruled by the Albanese leadership on some very significant matters

    That works right up until it doesn’t, there’s nothing to suggest labor couldn’t have a giant swing against them at the next election just like when the greens managed to get through in 22, sadly most people don’t care for gaza quite as much as the Greens for some reason think they do and people didn’t care for what they were offering and thus the decline, tbh the greens should really be shining right now, absolute shambles from them

    Program: Is this the start of Pauline Hanson’s ‘orange wave’?

    www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/…/106487270

    To be honest I don’t think I can vote PHON first preference because my god I might throw up but i’m certainly not happy about it

    In terms of unions I’d be more inclined to support them if they better represented me, the demands they seem to levy are egregious that have me siding with businesses going damn that’s crazy

    source

    • eureka@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      voting is the main way to show support to a political party and it’s platform, if you’re not getting votes it’s pretty clear people don’t agree with what you’re offering

      politicians listen to votes

      I don’t disagree with either of these statements. Nor do they disagree with my statement that votes are a vague message - if I tell you (and it’s the truth) that the Greens weren’t in my top two preferences in 2025 (nor Labor, nor Liberal) - what information does that give them? What would the Greens do if they wanted my vote? All my vote really says is, “I prefer this other party”, but not which policies I like, or even if it’s the policies I have a problem with. I know people who vote Liberal but are anti-privatisation! I know people who vote Liberal but are environmentally progressive! I know someone who voted for the opposition one year to “give someone else a go”! Even just the differing policies of each party are complicated, let alone other factors like personalities.

      I don’t agree that voting is our biggest weapon, but it’s one everyone can use without any risk, so it’s certainly potent and important! Our biggest weapon is our labour. If you, me and millions of other people all voice a unified demand and stop going to work, that’s both a more accurate weapon (they know precisely what we want changed) and a weapon that can bring a government to its knees - look at revolutions overseas started by strikes. And it also works against companies which don’t even let us vote!

      You can see the impact PHON has, even though they only got a tiny % of the pie in SA the big parties are keenly aware of them and why people are voting for them

      The following quote from Labor is extremely vague. Why did people vote for One Nation? Was it frustration with housing costs? General cost of living pressures? Reaction to the firearm laws after the Bondi massacre? Opposition to Islam? A hatred of Arabic people (Muslim or not) or Asians? Opposition to all immigration, including English? Simply sending a message of dissatisfaction to the Liberals? A disdain towards conventional, formal politicians? Media exposure and familiarity? (some people can’t even name our Prime Minister, so don’t underestimate this!)

      tbh the greens should really be shining right now, absolute shambles from them

      Absolutely. While I do think they’re right to support activism around Gaza (even if it comes from the argument of “stop wasting our resources on foreign wars”), it shouldn’t be at their forefront.

      the demands they seem to levy are egregious that have me siding with businesses going damn that’s crazy

      It’s worth pointing out that sometimes (and maybe this doesn’t apply to the ones you’re thinking of) they come to the table with high demands with the intention to settle on a lower demand.

      Not all unions are the same, nor are all organisers the same (had a string of bad ones until recently) so I’m fully aware that some are bad at representing employees. And it’s a damn shame. It makes a feedback loop where a bad union experience makes people dismissive of the actions necessary to improve the union. I’m lucky enough to be in one where we’ve recently managed to reorganise and volunteer enough to build campaigns where fellow employees were able to instruct us with their demands (and you bet thousands of us were asking for a 10% pay rise that we had to temper to something more realistic). But until I volunteered to help build this reorganisation, I did feel disempowered and unrepresented, and hesitated to even join the union, despite being a unionist.

      The tough answer is, if institutions aren’t giving you power, you have to build it.

      source

      • Eyekaytee@aussie.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Sadly there’s too much for me to reply to

        what information does that give them? What would the Greens do if they wanted my vote? All my vote really says is, “I prefer this other party”, but not which policies I like, or even if it’s the policies I have a problem with.

        They can get quite a lot out of it, if you live an exciting life like me and tried to read

        Review of Labor’s 2019 Federal Election Campaign

        alp.org.au/media/…/alp-campaign-review-2019.pdf

        They go into detail on where and who was unhappy with them, for example:

        Labor’s position on Adani sent a message to workers and their families in central and north Queensland that Labor did not value them or the work they do, a problem magnified by the Stop Adani Convoy. A perception Labor was not supportive of the mining industry may have also damaged the Party across the rest of Queensland

        The swing against Labor was driven by a mix of national and local dynamics. The Labor-Greens agreement that underpinned the minority state Labor government in Tasmania from 2010 to 2014 remains a sore point for many voters in northern Tasmania, who view the Greens as implacably hostile to their interests, values and livelihoods. For a Labor candidate in northern Tasmania, any perception a vote for Labor could lead to more power and influence for the Greens is very damaging.

        So while in isolation a single vote doesn’t accurately tell the pollies what you’re after, in aggregate they’re the loudest voice in teh room

        ---

        Our biggest weapon is our labour. If you, me and millions of other people all voice a unified demand and stop going to work, that’s both a more accurate weapon (they know precisely what we want changed) and a weapon that can bring a government to its knees - look at revolutions overseas started by strikes. And it also works against companies which don’t even let us vote!

        I’d agree in principal because there are plenty of examples in history to show when workers said this fucking sucks I’m not doing this anymore and they all collectively agreed to stop work it does work, but I guess I can’t see this happening as much anymore, the demands are also strange

        ABC journalists to strike for first time in 20 years with widespread news disruption expected

        “Management have played very dirty in negotiations and don’t think we deserve pay that’s in line with inflation (despite giving themselves massive bonuses). They won’t even make an assurance that AI won’t take over our jobs.

        I was like when has it ever been a thing that you get a pay raise in line with inflation? isn’t it always what the market offers?

        “No one has provided any evidence to me to suggest ABC staff are paid less than industry standards,” Marks said. “In addition, the leave provisions ABC staff receive are generally more generous than many other major workplaces.”

        theguardian.com/…/abc-staff-strike-first-time-20-…

        :\

        theguardian.com/…/cfmeu-victorian-branch-15bn-cos…

        :\

        I myself have no reason to do this as my life is too comfortable, given by all the RAM trucks and SUV’s I saw on the way into the city today it seems like we’re in a real K shaped economy

        source

        • -> View More Comments