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Comment on How to reduce the crime rate to 0

1984@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

You know, what is stupid is talking about this when you have no experience of it yourself, and you clearly think any bad opinions about immigration is xenophobia. That is actual stupidity man. You dont have experience and you dont think. Could there be other reasons than skin color? Yeah, lots of reasons. Culture, economics, crime, and so on. The things i actually wrote in my comment.

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phutatorius@lemmy.zip ⁨52⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

you clearly think any bad opinions about immigration is xenophobia.

That’s very likely, far more so than the chance that you know what a stranger on the internet “clearly thinks.”

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Dojan@pawb.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Right, I even said “it’s not even just ‘ew brown people’”, so I’m not sure what you’re arguing over.

without having a job, income, and you dont have to learn the language

…and that’s the fault of the migrant? We have some flawed social programmes. I won’t argue that SFI isn’t rubbish. I’ve dated two Iranians, SFI is very poorly structured and needs more work done to function well. Students can excel there, absolutely, but it’s not exactly set up in a way to make this happen.

I’m not sure why exactly you list job and income, the two tend to be intrinsically linked.

Oh and here is some money too so you can stay at home.

This also means that the state has a constant check on your finances, and you report monthly to Försäkringskassan/Socialen. It’s not exactly a fun experience, and nothing you flaunt, you’ll never get rich or live large on this money.

Also, you’re aware that you as a Swedish citizen have the ability to do this too, right? Just get rid of all your assets, quit your job, and when you’re living below subsistence minimum go grovel at your local socialtjänst.

And here is an apartment.

Again, as a Swede you have the ability to get this, too, you just need to become homeless first. Give it a shot, if you think the experience is so great. There are social programmes for this, and there are requirements for people that end up in these places.

For example, regular immigrants don’t just get an apartment. Asylum seekers might get a place to live while their application is processed, and once that’s been approved they’ll either be assigned a place to live, or get assistance finding a place to live. A lot of this is done on a case-by-case basis, they might for example already have family already established here.

And now we are building mosques.

And what is the problem here? We have freedom of religion here in Sweden, for better and for worse.

Mosques are financed through private financing, generally a tithe collected from the members, grants from the state (which again, if you’re in a religious group you can apply for this too), and private backing from other third-party actors.

The mosques don’t broadcast adhan either, and I don’t think that’s something that would gain any general approval here so I don’t see it happening.

Crime is typically a social problem. Sure, some people are twisted and those that don’t have the contacts required to end up as successful tech-bro CEOs will go about abusing others in a less socially-approved manner, but it’s not a problem inherent to migration.

It takes time to build functioning social programmes, and ours are never allowed to grow into anything functional when our government keeps flip-flopping between the milquetoast left government with the Ayn Rand party making the calls while the nazis set the budget, and the yee-haw capitalist nazi coalition dismantling everything every four years.

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- 1984@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Im not blaming immigrants, im blaming sweden for this.
  
  SFI is horrible and at least you have managed to see that.
  
  Then you say that i can also be on social wellfare if I want. Yes, but thats not what I want or anyone living her wants. We want a country where people are qualified to get jobs, not live on wellfare. You probably agree on that too. You have hundreds of thousands of immigrants not getting jobs because they dont learn the language and they are content with getting money from the tax paying population. They dont want to have a shitty job, and rather live on wellfare, which makes perfect sense from their point of view. I would do the same.
  
  Like I said, im not blaming immigrants. I blame Sweden for accepting millions of people and not having any plan to make them productive citizens of the country. And also for being extreamly gullible and stupid, not having any idea of what kind of crime would come with it. Being completely shocked when these people dont want to become Swedish citizens and talk Swedish. Why should they?
  
  And about the mosques, this leads to a culture shift in the country, where islam is getting a foothold. You say for better, for worse. Its for worse. Sweden has a long tradition of human rights, women rights, and seeing people as equal. Muslim countries do not. Obviously.
  
  You are not going to agree with me on this, but at least realize not liking immigration doesnt have to be “i dont like your skin color”. Thats a dumb argument. Its about so much more than that.
  
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  - phutatorius@lemmy.zip ⁨43⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    
    this leads to a culture shift in the country, where islam is getting a foothold.
    
    The experience in the UK is that Muslim immigrants’ level of religious observance (e.g., mosque attendance) and degree of religious conservatism both decline based on how many generations the immigrant’s family has been in the country. Out-marriage (with respect to both religion and ethnicity) also increases with each successive generation. There’s an issue with a small minority of second-generation youth becoming extremists in reaction to difficulty in assimilating, but the overall trend goes the other way.
    
    And the right’s solution is to add more barriers to assimilation. That makes it look to me like their goal is not to solve the problem, but to be sure they have a steady supply of marginalized scapegoats.
    
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  - guy@piefed.social ⁨56⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    
    Then you say that i can also be on social wellfare if I want. Yes, but thats not what I want or anyone living her wants.
    
    I would do the same.
    
    Pick one.
    I love the trope “I want to work and not be on welfare. But the (insert vulnerable group) don’t, they just want to relax on tax payers money!”
    
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  - Dojan@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    You have hundreds of thousands of immigrants not getting jobs because they dont learn the language and they are content with getting money from the tax paying population. They dont want to have a shitty job, and rather live on wellfare, which makes perfect sense from their point of view. I would do the same.
    
    Yeah see, I don’t agree on this. I grew up in poverty here in Sweden. For reference, I was born in Stockholm in the 90s, lived in Södermalm for quite a while. Not exactly an easy place to live on subsistence minimum, but things have changed for the worse since then - I don’t blame migration for this either. Our housing problem isn’t a problem of scarcity, it’s a problem of greed.
    
    I grew up with a single parent, with a very rocky employment record. Living on welfare is complete ass, and sometimes you won’t get it even if it’s entirely necessary. I know a bloke who lived out in the middle of nowhere. Rent was cheap, but he had no public transit access. Ended up on hard times, and struggled finding a job. He owned an old Volvo that the social services deemed worth 15k, and so at one point they decided that he should sell his only means of transport to any potential place of employment. Thus his only option was to do that, and move somewhere more expensive putting him in a worse economic situation.
    
    Living on welfare is stressful. It doesn’t matter if it’s from socialen or försäkringskassan. It’s fickle, and it’s demeaning. You’re looked down upon as if you’re a leech in a system that exists to help people in your position. A system we all pay into to help people in that position. Including people who are in that position. You don’t stop paying taxes just because you’re on welfare, that’s coming out of your bottom-line as well.
    
    If you’d rather live on welfare than work a shitty job, do it. You see this sort of argument all the time, but it really isn’t as fun or relaxing as you think it is.
    
    That’s not to say that there aren’t people like this, it just has nothing to do with migration. It’s a case of the bourgeoisie shitting on the working class and pointing at migrants as the problem. Go back far enough in time, before we had a visible migrant minority, and this stupid talking point was still being made.
    
    You are not going to agree with me on this, but at least realize not liking immigration doesnt have to be “i dont like your skin color”. Thats a dumb argument. Its about so much more than that.
    
    Again, you clearly didn’t read what I said, because the continuation of “it’s not even just ‘ew brown people’” was…
    
    because people were like this about the Finns as well.
    
    The implication you’ve missed here is that the Finnish immigrants were white, and xenophobes found ways to be arses about them anyway. Those same xenophobes would todaWe have an opportunity to be open and welcoming to people, y point at Finns as “the good kind” of immigrant, because of a “cultural overlap” or whatever. If you shrunk the world down to just a single village, the xenophobes would bemoan the people on the other side of it.
    
    Sweden has a long tradition of human rights, women rights, and seeing people as equal.
    
    No, we don’t. We dabbled with eugenics on the native population in the 40s. Women got a general right to vote in 1919, which is only about 100 years ago. Married women were myndigförklarade first 1921. Abortion wasn’t made legal until 1975. Fags like me were considered mentally ill until 1979. That wasn’t even 50 years ago. Our most recent overturn of a eugenics law was in 2013, so in a couple of years it’ll be old enough to get a driver’s license.
    
    I’m not praising Islam. I don’t think religious dogma should have a spot in modern society. One of my exes fled to Sweden because of persecution. He was captured by the regime in his home country, and tortured. His back is covered in scars.
    
    The religious extremism and zealotry isn’t a reflection of the culture at large, just how Trump and the insane far-right in the U.S. isn’t a representation of the average populace. It’s corruption. The perspective of the Middle East and Africa as some kind of undeveloped, brutish, uncultured backwaters are based in European imperialism and white supremacy. It’s just not historically true.
    
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