Comment on We wouldn't listen, anyway.
yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day agoNo, they don’t. Second-order questions aren’t just the prosaic things any intelligent creature would ask, such as “why am I here?” or “what do you want from me?”
but also the more esoteric, “what sort of creature are you?” And “what sort of creature am I?”
Animals (and, indeed, most humans) don’t ask second-order questions at all because that requires abstraction, which is the sort of reasoning that requires enormous amounts of education and curiosity.
theneverfox@pawb.social 1 day ago
I agree, but that is the kind of question they do think about. Koko was “a wonderful gorilla person” in her own words
There’s a dog that uses one of those word button mats that thinks small dogs are cats, dogs are dogs, and that she’s a human (or that her owner is also a dog, she’s convinced she’s the same as her owner and always gets confused when it’s explained otherwise)
They don’t ask, because they already know what they think. They aren’t confused about where they stand in the world, it’s learning human categorization that confuses them
yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Most humans can’t even contemplate these questions. We have a lot of depressing research showing that most people can barely engage in abstract reasoning at all, let alone willingly.
theneverfox@pawb.social 1 day ago
I don’t think that’s different, I think that’s very related to the topic at hand
And yeah, that’s all true. All living things can suffer, down to single cells
The real question here is where is the line between us and other animals. And I think you’re almost there - you’re on the verge of recognizing there is none, or maybe of internalizing that realization
Most animals don’t often think about the meaning of life, just like most humans. They don’t think to ask us either, because we’re honestly a pretty foolish species. We’re powerful and intelligent, but not wise
An orca, elephant, or corvid is probably the wisest being on earth right now. Possibly even a whole forest
yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Elephants are wise in that they’re concerned with (some of) the things that matter most — social bonds and creature comforts. But, as far as we know, they can’t abstract away from those concerns to scrutinize them abstractly, or analytically, or reflect on the nature of wisdom or the metanormative conditions of their own experience.
We can do that — due to some freak accident of evolution that probably has to do with the recursivity of language and the self-referential nature of subjective experience. And again, when I say “we,” I mean some humans sometimes.