Comment on I'm not asking to be rich.
unfreeradical@lemmy.world 10 months agoYes, silly. The unifying feature of all human society is that it is made up of people.
Do you have any values or aspirations for the kind of world in which you want to live, or it just nuke 'em all?
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Lmfao where did I say nuke them all? You’re really trying it on now.
If you don’t have anything significant to add to the discussion, if all you want to do is try and twist things into a “gotcha”, then you should really just move on. You’re only embarrassing yourself right now.
unfreeradical@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Listen. I am simply observing that your framing of society provides to no one any value.
The concern for people is how to configure people in a society that supports people achieving their shared interests as people.
It is no value to anyone simply to assert as the problem having no solution simply than there are people.
I am encouraging you to consider, even just to imagine, the different possibilities for the world in which we could share.
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
You’re simply saying vague things and trying to expand the language to sound clever and definitive. And yet, when I have asked you to define specific things, you have deflected.
I have defined the problem: people, not the social structure. I have described how the social structures we have implemented so far are inadequate solutions at addressing the problem; people figure out the structure and play it to their advantage. I have suggested that we need to keep the systems in flux - to shuffle them up - in order to mitigate people taking advantage. Furthermore I have said that this will direct us to better societal systems overall in the long run. New possibilities require ongoing change, on a fundamental, not brief and superficial level.
You have offered little to nothing in this conversation. You’ve taken pot shots, but they’re firing further and further from the mark. You’re positioning yourself against me, as if defeating me will be some kind of victory. I would much prefer it if you worked with me so we can both figure out the objective truth. I don’t want you to say I’m wrong, I want you to prove what I’m saying is wrong, as if you succeed in that I’ll know things better.
unfreeradical@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Again, though, a problem that can be solved is not simply a problem simply described as “people”, unless you are making a suggestion that mostly everyone finds disagreeable, such as denying the existence of others, or advocating a collective suicide pact.
Is it not more coherent to frame as an objective how people may live together, as people in society, pursuing their shared interests as people?
Considere an analogy. Suppose a bicycle breaks. Would it not be sensible to try to find the flaws in the structure, and to replace or to reconfigure the broken parts?
Would you take the bicycle to a repair shop, expecting the proprietor to explain simply that the problem is bicycles?
Do you see the problem, with framing as a problem, that which is already given as unalterable?
Again, the questions people face is not people, butbof how we may live as people.