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Comment on Do any ATMs in Belgium support balance inquiries?

ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Banks are gradually removing features from their websites in a progression toward complete elimination of the website (some banks have already taken that step & impose an app). 1-factor authentication is illegal in Belgium. So for web access banks typically hand out devices for 2FA. Some banks avoid that cost by imposing a smartphone app in lieu of a card reader or RSA token (BYO smartphone).

There are many problems with bank apps in Belgium:

You must buy smartphone hardware (the apps detect when they are executed inside a virtual machine & deny service)
You must patronize a surveillance capitalist (create a Google or Apple account)
2.1. You must subscribe to mobile phone service in order to satisfy Google’s unreasonable demand for a mobile phone number
2.2. You must trust Google with your mobile phone number
2.3. When Google records your place of banking, you must trust Google not to share that info (with debt collectors, for example)
All bank apps in Belgium are closed-source, so you must trust the apps not to carry spyware and to work in your interests
You must chronically upgrade your hardware every few years because the bank apps are upgraded with reckless disregard to the lockstep-coupling of hardware to software on all phone platforms that are supported by Belgian banks. You cannot run a VM to prevent irresponsible electronic waste (see point 1)
The bank’s privacy policies are written to allow your realtime location to be tracked via the app.

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Thavron@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I say this with the best intentions, and you have every right to take all these things into consideration, but you’re sounding very paranoid. I think your best option would be to immediately withdraw any funds you receive and keep a completely paper administration.

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- ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’m an ethical consumer. That means I will not patronize unethical companies. Feeding data to Google is as good as feeding money to Google. Google is part of the fossil fuel industry (they are in partnership with Totaal oil and use AI to help Totaal find places to drill for oil).
  
  I’m also ethically opposed closed-source software because I think it misplaces power. The worst kind of misplacement of power is to give it to tech giants.
  
  I’m also ethically opposed to software designs that make phones disposable and force the disposal of perfectly good hardware.
  
  W.r.t. paranoia, street wise people and those with some infosec background always seem “paranoid” to normal people. And to us, normal people are cavalier because they needlessly share information without knowing the rule of least privilege. Privilege should only be granted on an as-needed basis and that includes access to information. It’s unreasonable for banks to snoop on people without a warrant.
  
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thelastknowngod@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
My man… You are not getting around the tracking. It’s never going to happen. Unless you literally toss everything with a network connection and disconnect from the electric, gas, and water grids, you are going to be tracked.

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- ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  You are not getting around the tracking. It’s never going to happen.
  
  I do. I only access banks electronically if they accommodate Tor. The bank only gets to know my physical location when I do a transaction where that’s unavoidable. Even if I were to carry a mobile phone on standby wherever I go, the bank would get nothing from it if I don’t run their app.
  
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  - thelastknowngod@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    I only access banks electronically if they accommodate Tor.
    
    So they know when you logged in and what you did when you got there. So you can’t escape it there.
    
    The bank only gets to know my physical location when I do a transaction where that’s unavoidable.
    
    So you can’t escape this either.
    
    Even if I were to carry a mobile phone on standby wherever I go, the bank would get nothing from it if I don’t run their app.
    
    They would get nothing except the time, location, amount, business, and how that relates to the other purchases you make and all the data those transactions generate as well. That data is shared with the bank, Visa or MasterCard, and all credit reporting agencies. This is unavoidable too.
    
    You are not getting out of this unless you allow it to seriously affect your life.
    
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    ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I figured you were trolling but gave you the benefit of the doubt right up until you mentioned “all credit reporting agencies”, in Belgium. There are no credit bureaus in Belgium, only a central bank which (unlike US credit bureaus) is public sector and not interested in grabbing data for profit, or in obtaining any data it’s not legally required to obtain. Nice try though.
    
    But FYI, your assumption would be wrong even in the US as well. Request your credit report from whichever credit bureau you believe is buying location data from your mobile phone provider. Notice the location data is not on that report. Then go to your local small claims court and spend ~$100 to open a lawsuit against them for $1k (+~100 in court costs). Bring to court proof that they bought your realtime CDMA/GSM location data, a copy of your credit report showing it’s not there, and a copy of the federal law requiring that credit report to be complete. It might be the easiest $1k you’ve earned. You don’t have to prove actual damages either because the statute specifies $1k per violation. If you can catch all three credit bureaus doing what you claim, that’s an easy $3k. Good luck!
    
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