The peace terms they dont like is gaza gets exterminated. This was a situation before the Hamas attack, palestinians being killed and their land taken. Israel will accept no peace that includes palestinians existing.
the destruction of the civilian infrastructure of regimes deemed to be hostile as a measure calculated to deny combatants the use of that infrastructure and endorses the employment of "disproportionate force" to secure that end.
It's not about extermination/killing, if that were their goal there would be no Palestine. Israel certainly has the means to turn the entire place into rubble immediately if maximizing civilian deaths were their goal as you claim. Although collateral damage certainly happens in Dahiya strikes, they are clearly calculated to provide both carrots and sticks to disincentivize violence and protect themselves, not to kill the most civilians possible.
However, I suspect annexing land from Hamas controlled Gaza probably is their goal at this point. That seems totally reasonable given that:
If the leadership of next town over kept on killing civilians in my town with guerilla attacks, was constantly defeated in conventional conflicts, yet refused to negotiate for viable peace, a reasonable person would want that hostile population moved away from them for safety and security. Is this genocide? I don't think so, because the goal is not to destroy an ethnic group (20% of Israeli citizens with full rights are of Palestinian/Arab descent.) it is to keep a hostile foreign territory from literally killing your people. It is annexation of territory, which is a consequence of war.
Just as there were many innocent civilians in Nazi Germany that suffered because of the regime that was in charge there, so too are Gazans suffering because the government they live under started conflicts they could not hope to win. Just as things got better for Germany when they pacified themselves, so too could they improve for Palestine, but only if concessions are made. Otherwise they will keep losing and things will be made worse and worse until they are left with nothing. I hope they are willing to surrender and negotiate for peace before then, because this is not a war they can win militarily.
Lots of things to address in your links. The fact that that is no longer the Hamas charter, the current charter recognizes the israeli state territory.
From the link on Israel disengagement
The United Nations, international human rights organizations and many legal scholars regard the Gaza Strip to still be under military occupation by Israel.[5] This is disputed by Israel and other legal scholars.[6] Following the withdrawal, Israel continues to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities.
They never actually disengaged, and have killed a lot of palestinians through this humanitarian nightmare theyve enforced.
And that is quite some revision to the 1948 arab israeli war. It was palestinian territory and israel were the invaders, that was the beginning of the killing and exiling of palestinians from their own land. From the modern day fraction of territory palestinians now have, and the massive death toll of palestinians, you can see how that has proceeded over time. Any resistance to this extermination just gets used as justification to continue it.
Israel could turn Gaza into a lifeless parking lot in an hour if they actually wanted to. They don't.
I won't pretend that their demands have always been reasonable, but they have made peace proposals that do not demand Palestinians not existing. You're letting your emotions talk way ahead of anything remotely factual.
Israel could also stop the annexation of Palestinian land and the murders of Palestinian civilians, but doesn’t
The only reason Israel hasn’t wiped out Gaza and the West Bank and taken those areas as part of Israel is that they believe that a full-on intense genocide would be too much for the world to let go. Whether or not that fear is true is something we may find out now in Gaza
DarkGamer@kbin.social 11 months ago
Palestinian leadership agrees to peace terms they may not like and enforces pacification effectively.
blazera@kbin.social 11 months ago
The peace terms they dont like is gaza gets exterminated. This was a situation before the Hamas attack, palestinians being killed and their land taken. Israel will accept no peace that includes palestinians existing.
DarkGamer@kbin.social 11 months ago
The alternative is Dahiya Doctrine continues:
It's not about extermination/killing, if that were their goal there would be no Palestine. Israel certainly has the means to turn the entire place into rubble immediately if maximizing civilian deaths were their goal as you claim. Although collateral damage certainly happens in Dahiya strikes, they are clearly calculated to provide both carrots and sticks to disincentivize violence and protect themselves, not to kill the most civilians possible.
However, I suspect annexing land from Hamas controlled Gaza probably is their goal at this point. That seems totally reasonable given that:
If the leadership of next town over kept on killing civilians in my town with guerilla attacks, was constantly defeated in conventional conflicts, yet refused to negotiate for viable peace, a reasonable person would want that hostile population moved away from them for safety and security. Is this genocide? I don't think so, because the goal is not to destroy an ethnic group (20% of Israeli citizens with full rights are of Palestinian/Arab descent.) it is to keep a hostile foreign territory from literally killing your people. It is annexation of territory, which is a consequence of war.
Just as there were many innocent civilians in Nazi Germany that suffered because of the regime that was in charge there, so too are Gazans suffering because the government they live under started conflicts they could not hope to win. Just as things got better for Germany when they pacified themselves, so too could they improve for Palestine, but only if concessions are made. Otherwise they will keep losing and things will be made worse and worse until they are left with nothing. I hope they are willing to surrender and negotiate for peace before then, because this is not a war they can win militarily.
blazera@kbin.social 11 months ago
Lots of things to address in your links. The fact that that is no longer the Hamas charter, the current charter recognizes the israeli state territory.
From the link on Israel disengagement
They never actually disengaged, and have killed a lot of palestinians through this humanitarian nightmare theyve enforced.
And that is quite some revision to the 1948 arab israeli war. It was palestinian territory and israel were the invaders, that was the beginning of the killing and exiling of palestinians from their own land. From the modern day fraction of territory palestinians now have, and the massive death toll of palestinians, you can see how that has proceeded over time. Any resistance to this extermination just gets used as justification to continue it.
BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 11 months ago
Israel could turn Gaza into a lifeless parking lot in an hour if they actually wanted to. They don't.
I won't pretend that their demands have always been reasonable, but they have made peace proposals that do not demand Palestinians not existing. You're letting your emotions talk way ahead of anything remotely factual.
PizzasDontWearCapes@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Israel could also stop the annexation of Palestinian land and the murders of Palestinian civilians, but doesn’t
The only reason Israel hasn’t wiped out Gaza and the West Bank and taken those areas as part of Israel is that they believe that a full-on intense genocide would be too much for the world to let go. Whether or not that fear is true is something we may find out now in Gaza
blazera@kbin.social 11 months ago
You dont think thered be backlash on that?