Comment on What kind of upbringing makes an incel?
bouh@lemmy.world 8 months agoThe privileges are irrelevant to the problem. The problem is about how to date and seduce.
These interactions are extremely codified. The interesting part is that they are completely tied to culture, but almost all cultures show heavy patriarchal bias.
Depending in the culture it’s tought in different ways. In our western culture, we have the example of our peers, movies and magazines.
It’s not a matter of role but a matter of how to behave. And it’s not about being nice and respectful. These are obvious to anyone who’s not an asshole. But you are not attractive by being nice and respectful, and you’re delusional if you think it’s the case.
Incels topically missed the classes about how to do the dating and seducing. They weren’t necessarily assholes before the trauma and conditioning. But when you are bad this game and you look for advices, the only answers you will find are conservative and machist. And that’s the positive answers you will find.
Because too many reactions will be disdainful or shaming. This thread is an example of it. And from the people who pretend they are trying to fix the problems between men and women, it’s a shame IMO.
nicetomeetyouIMVEGAN@lemmings.world 8 months ago
Privilege is the key stone foundational to understanding what incels are trying to get. If you’re brushing it aside nothing but a superficial understanding about dating remains and becomes useless in formulating any sort of solution to the problem.
Yeah superficially incels are about dating and seducing. But this doesn’t explain anything. In fact it is what incels themselves claim the solution is, in getting better at seduction and dating. So basically your solution would be exactly the same as the incel solution. Should make you think.
bouh@lemmy.world 8 months ago
This is not a matter of privileges. The machist stance is a fall back. The privileges are a cherry on the cake.
Is it too hard to understand that many people only someone to live with? And that the frustration of not getting it can completely destroy a personality? Then they’re suggested a easy solution.
It is a radicalisation process. Arabs are given terrorism. Single young white boys are given machism.
Idiots solutions to these is to fight them. Progressive and smart solutions are to understand why they are destroyed in the first place and prevent it. Abandoned middle classes are given fascism.
Living happy in solitude is not a solution.
On a side note I’m pretty sure you can link a part of the suicides to this problem. Obviously dead young boys don’t become incels though.
nicetomeetyouIMVEGAN@lemmings.world 8 months ago
This is what I mean. You’re just saying that what incels experience is a lack of love/companionship. Exactly the same thing that incels demand from women. You’re both just looking at the same solution, of how to give these boys company. That they are caught between a rock and a hard place.
But that’s exactly what the man-o-sphere is telling these people. Your analysis is no different than what Andrew tate, Jordan peterson, etc. would say. That feminism has caused a shift in society that leads to a lack of family values, commitment, common sense, etc. That the freedom women have are detrimental, because they now have the freedom to deny you that love and companionship.
What are you going to say now? Because not a word is an explicit lie here. Feminism has caused more divorce, more freedom for women, greater self worth for women, sexual freedom, higher demands on men. It’s just true. So the type of superficially gesturing at boys lacking companionship is only just helping incels into the pipeline. It means nothing, it’s not an analysis. You’re completely missing the point.
bouh@lemmy.world 8 months ago
No. I am absolutely not saying that.
I am saying that the usual way men and women get together is an old patriarcal way. And thus, when a man look into how to get into a relationship, he is dragged into this shit hole.
Hence, society needs to change the way men and women date and seduce eachother so that this way is healthier, more feminist.
Somehow the only answer people have is “get used to being alone” or “stop being a shitty person”. That’s a short sighted and stupid answer to the problem.
Can you understand that? Or do you must always fall back on the irrelevant privileges stuff?
It is not a superficial problem. It is the root of how men and women interact together. Turning a blind eye on it only serves the fascists you named.