Comment on What can US citizens do to fight/prevent their country enabling genocide?
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 5 days agoIntent matters, as does the overall goal.
Israel are trying to eliminate Hamas, the internationally recognized terrorist organisation. That’s it. They’re not trying to wipe out the Palestinian population.
delusion@lemmy.myserv.one 5 days ago
You seem to repeat the same argument over and over. I believe you know you’re wrong. Israel can try to achieve this goal without making an entire area hell on earth for 2 million people. You know this. Amnesty international knows this. The UN knows this. The ICJ knows this.
Also, I want to point out a fundamental difference in iur arguments.
You say:
Hamas wants to commit Genocide against the jewish people. This gives Israel the right to do whatever it takes to “take out Hamas” (whatever that means?), with however much collateral damage they want.
I say: Israel is commiting genocide against the Palestinian People. Nothing more. I do not, at all, see this as a reason for Hamas to wipe out the entirety of IDF killing however many innocent Israelis it takes. Do you understand? The many crimes of the IDF (which are facts, look up Israeli war crimes if you do not believe me) does not warrant the killing and starvation of Israeli children in the thousands.
Nor does the crimes of Hamas warrant the killing and starvation of Arab children in the thousands. Obviously.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 4 days ago
Am I supposed to come up with new arguments every time? Israel are trying to eliminate Hamas. That’s the goal. Sorry if I keep repeating it. Maybe I’m repeating it because you refuse to acknowledge it?
No, I say that Hamas started the war and Israel are trying to finish it.
I say Israel aren’t committing a genocide because their intent is only to stop an internationally recognised terrorist organisation.
delusion@lemmy.myserv.one 4 days ago
I will try to acknowledge your arguments. From my understanding, your main point is the following:
Israel is trying to eliminate Hamas and nothing else. Because Hamas is very dangerous and evil, the actions of the IDF in Gaza is justified. Is that a reasonable summary?
I disagree on many parts of that argument, as you know.
Now, why do I disagree and you do not?
It seems to me that intent matters much to you. I believe this might be where our views differ the most. I realize that assuming that Israel is acting in good faith was a flaw in my argumentation, as I do not at all believe that. I will not try to argue under that assumption any more.
Let’s purely look at intent. Again, here we have a very different views. You claim (correct me if I’m wrong): Israel has no intent of doing anything but changing the power structure in Gaza in order to get rid of evil forces. Israel treats evey innocent human with the samr repsect and decency. Israel intends to let Gazans keep living in Gaza and has no plan of taking over Gaza. Israel has every intent to let Gazan infrastructure, homes, and buildings be undamaged as far as possible. Israel wants to make life as good as possible for Gazans, and has no intention to make it unneccsary difficult. Israel does not want the population of Gaza to be displaced to another country. Israel would avoid killing innocent Arabs to the same extent as they would avoid killing innocent Jews. So far correct?
I claim the exact opposite, more or less. I believe that the evidence of what is happening in Gaza strongly indicates that I am correct.
To convince me that Israel is acting in good faith, you have to provide arguments for that. A statement from Israel is not an argument at all.
I hope I haven’t misrepresented your standpoints too much.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 3 days ago
Yes, intent matters. Hamas, the internationally recognised terrorist organisation, committed terrorist act atrocities against Israelis and started this war. Israel rightfully will not stop until Hamas are not only removed from power in Gaza, but completely eliminated. That’s the “good faith” that Israel are acting in. If they just wanted to commit genocide they would have razed the whole place long ago.
That’s really all that needs to be pointed out - if they wanted to kill them all, they would have long ago. They have the means and opportunity to do so. They haven’t and they aren’t. Why do you think they’d draw it out while facing all this backlash? They’d just wipe them from the face of the earth and go “yeh we did it, what are you gonna do about it?”.