This will never happen. The problem with decentralized stuff is that anyone can put anything, so piracy will be omnipresent there, why would you pay for a game when the seller next store is giving it away for free (or much cheaper), and how would you distinguish between “EA” selling the Sims 1 there and “TheRealEA” selling the Sims 1 there for the same price. Also decentralized card information is a bad idea, so you would either need a centralized paying hub, setup your card with every seller, or only be able to use crypto to pay, all of those are bad in their own way. But it’s a nice dream
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
I’d like to see an open-source decentralized game store, like a competitor to Steam, GOG, etc. However, I think it should also target emulators. There’s still an unfounded stigma toward emulation even though emulators themselves are legal, and even though the big AAA game companies themselves are now using them as a lazy way to repackage and resell their old games on new platforms.
One of the biggest barriers to entry into emulation is the setup. Even with super user-friendly frontends like Emulation Station, people are still required to either go out of their way to either legally backup the games they already own, or told to “do some searches,” because of legal issues. Nevermind how this exposes new users to potential malware.
But people still make new games for these old systems. It’s entirely possible to make a store that can sell ROMs legally - one already exists, itch.io. But imagine a federated open-source game store, one where game makers can choose to legally sell their own games, and then create plugins for the emulation frontends to allow people to buy roms directly from those interfaces. It would turn emulation into a fully complete console-like experience, all while being available on more platforms than any console could ever hope to be (including those same consoles when they’re jailbroken!)
I also think it would be the final puzzle piece that legitimizes emulation.
Nibodhika@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
This will never happen.
15 or so years ago people were saying the same thing about decentralized social media. Yet here we are.
The problem with decentralized stuff is that anyone can put anything, so piracy will be omnipresent there
This isn’t unique to decentralized platforms. Piracy is omnipresent. Yet people still buy stuff. But to address your question more concretely, imagine the store system is designed to be federated. Any instance owner can decide to what degree they would enforce anti-piracy measures. DMCA law requires a good faith effort on the part of a site owner to stop piracy, so any instance owner who wants to run a legitimate shop must properly vet game submissions to make sure they aren’t infringing copyright, and aren’t plagiarizing. They would also have to defederate from all pirate instances, but they would not be responsible for instances that have nothing to do with their own. People who choose to use the instances for piracy would be off on the margins of the internet, just like they are now.
why would you pay for a game when the seller next store is giving it away for free (or much cheaper)
Good question, since you already have that option for virtually all games, why do you pay for them? My reasons are because I generally do want to support the creators I like, as well as because a lot of pirated content is questionable in quality (ie., potential malware). Why do people pay for Red Hat Enterprise Linux when they can get the same OS for free, even legally? Continuing support in that case. Point is, people buy because they believe the value of buying is greater than what’s available for free, whatever reasons those might be.
and how would you distinguish between “EA” selling the Sims 1 there and “TheRealEA” selling the Sims 1 there for the same price.
I dunno dude, how do we do this now? A stupid checkmark? There’s gotta be better ways than a stupid checkmark. PGP signatures would probably be a good start. Maybe incorporate a web of trust implementation? How does Valve do it? I’m not an expert on the subject, here’s a Wikipedia page about the topic.
Also decentralized card information is a bad idea, so you would either need a centralized paying hub, setup your card with every seller, or only be able to use crypto to pay, all of those are bad in their own way.
Yeah, let that be a problem for the person who wants to decentralize payment systems. A more practical solution? Just include the popular payment methods that already exist. Except crypto currencies, that shit can fuck off.
You gave all these explanations for why a decentralized game shop couldn’t work, but all of them are not only not especially hard to solve for such a platform, but are also just common challenges for all of the internet. It’s like the 90s all over again when people insisted that open-source software itself couldn’t work. Yet, again, here we are.
Nibodhika@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
15 or so years ago people were saying the same thing about decentralized social media. Yet here we are.
No we weren’t, Email has been a thing for much longer than that. Everyone always knew decentralized social platforms were possible.
In any case you’re only scratching the surface of my points which is why you think they’re shallow, you haven’t answered a single one of them in any satisfactory way. Your answers get it 80% of the way there (which is the easy part that anyone knows how to do), but the last 20% is what makes this impossible in any practical sense of the word.
The main problem that Steam/GoG/Itch/etc solve is not selling games, but providing a secure validated platform where games can be sold. And this is the hard problem to solve on decentralized platforms. To answer you question, why do I buy games? there are 2 main points:
- It’s convenient
- I want to support the devs
Neither of those points work on a decentralized platform. It’s not convenient because of the payment hassle and trying to figure out if something is legit or not. When you buy stuff at Amazon even if it’s sold by someone else you’re safe that if you get scammed you will get your money back, on a decentralized platform that’s not the case, you will need to be extremely aware of who’s the seller, which instance is it being sold on, etc, etc. This alone completely obliterates the convenience of pressing a button and getting a game, so in this any decentralized platform will be worse. And the second point also is related, I can’t know if I’m supporting the devs or some random person who’s re-uploaded the game. Sure, PGP signatures would be nice, and we can use that to add a checkmark next to someone, except you need a centralized PGP public signature registry, so you’re no longer fully decentralized, and if you add a solution to it (e.g. blockchain of public PGP signatures of known sellers) it’s still possible to simply create another seller with a similar enough name, or create the official name before the official entity does it so you look more official than the actual official site.
In short people would not easily know if they’re buying from a pirate or from the devs, so that takes away convenience and support for the devs, the only two reasons I buy games. Valve/GoG/etc manage this very easily because they’re a centralized platform that control what gets on their store, so they can easily validate if the thing they’re selling is being sold by the actual dev, and even so there have been cases of indy games getting plagiarized and re uploaded by a different party. But in those cases, Valve took the loss, refunded the users and took the game off the store, in a decentralized platform that won’t be possible because the scammer is the only person with the power to do that, so again, less convenient, less secure.
Which leads me to payment, you think that just integrating something like Paypal is enough? first of all the moment you do that you loss the decentralized battle, now everything is centralized on the payment method and they can arbitrate stuff, so you haven’t solved anything by being decentralized.
Finally with all of this if you’re a company developing games why would you choose this platform? it provides nothing to you and there’s a 100% chance that anything you sell there will immediately be copied and resold by someone else. Which means that on corpo-mind if they wanted to get in there, they would strengthen their DRM policies to try to prevent this.
It’s a nice dream, but there are too many things that make this very difficult if not impossible to happen. Proving ownership of external stuff in fully decentralized systems is simply impossible, which is why stuff like HTTPS relies on centralized nodes for validation and why NFTs while a great idea on paper are synonym with scams on most people’s mind. Even if someone was able to create such a platform, no one would use it, so it’s just pointless. Which is not to say that there aren’t strives we can make in that direction, e.g. trying to enforce a common protocol for APIs which would allow multiple stores to be accessed from a single app is a nice start, a blockchain for ownership of games that can be part of that API used by stores to allow to cross-buy is another interesting idea (although the store would probably still charge something to activate the product, but essentially we’re moving the fee from the publisher to the customer in exchange to allow him to only pay a fee to activate the same game on multiple systems). Etc, etc, etc, there are plenty of nice ideas on how the situation can be improved, but a fully decentralized store should not be the end goal.
PS: The fact that you didn’t mentioned OpenBazaar in your reply is a relatively good indicator that you haven’t given this problem enough thought to understand the pitfalls you’re missing.
Bacano@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
This sounds dreamy