Comment on Can we defederate from rdq2.net?

• DayOfDoom@hexbear.net [bot] ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s so cool how you solved racism in your head just now.

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  • BurgerPunk@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    che-smile

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• BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s definitely not universal. I personally have heard people say racist, transphobic, etc. stuff without anyone shunning them because they were co-workers, relatives and other groups you can’t shun without things getting awkward. Besides, aren’t you in fact advocating for not having Nazi and pedo shit around, since the obvious analogy for being shunned IRL would be getting banned IRL for being a Nazi or pedo?

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  • flashgnash@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I am infact quite happy to have as few Nazis and pedos in my corner of the internet as possible, just think it’s inevitable they’re going to be somewhere with the nature of self hosted platforms like lemmy

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    • BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This thread is about lemm.ee, the instance your account is on, defederating from a Nazi pedo instance. That means not having them in your corner of the internet. Why are you arguing against this?

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      • flashgnash@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I’m not lol just wanted to have a conversation about the topic because the “free speech except these people” viewpoint requires some objective point of reference for what’s acceptable.

        It’s fairly obvious to 99% of people when it’s things like Nazis and pedos but it’s not always as clearcut with more controversial topics

        Lemmy instances having their own rules and defederating from those they don’t like seems like the best solution provided there are enough of them that users can jump ship if they don’t like the way they’re run

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    • Nakoichi@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Great and if they retreat further and further into Nazi/Pedo instances instead of engaging with the criticism and condemnation of their views and actions then that just curates for us a list of people that need to be excised from society at large. Online or otherwise.

      This creates a list of people that should be placed in reeducation programs post-revolution. I don’t see a problem with it.

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      • flashgnash@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        If you concentrate them all into one place they reinforce their own views and don’t get told to stfu by others on the internet, the problem is this way they don’t get silenced, just hidden

        Reeducation programs sound very dystopian to me

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    • Helmic@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They have always had their own platforms, using forum software and the like. They will use any free software regular people will use. They always had their own isolated corners of the internet.

      So then the question is whether these people would cease to be nazis or pedophiles if only they interacted with “normal” people. Decades of that mindset have gone by and the answer is “no.” They want tu be in normie spaces to convince others, they’re not going to deradicalize like that. Deradicalization is hard, time consuming for volunteers, and rare, as well as rarely complete. And even if it were effective, it is unethical to demand the people they target be the ones to deradicalize them. Nobody here signed an agreement to be a nazi pedo’s unpaid therapist.

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• ProxyTheAwesome@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Yes racism just corrects itself. That’s why there’s famously no racism happening anywhere

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  • Scew@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    whoa

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  • flashgnash@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Racism has dramatically reduced in recent years, used to be people would make racist comments in casual conversation and nobody would care

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    • ProxyTheAwesome@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The vast, vast majority of racism is not done through casual conversation. I hope you understand that.

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      • flashgnash@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        True. That definitely can’t stop it influencing people’s decisions at least in the short term

        I’d still like to think in the long term younger generations are less racist and would replace older ones stuck in their ways that currently hold all the power

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    • GarbageShoot@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      People still do that, it just depends on the company. Between this and some other comments, I think you are extrapolating far too much from your own anecdotal experiences.

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• GarbageShoot@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  If this was true, racism would be eradicated. It must further be stated that, though many racists are very ignorant, ascribing racism fundamentally to “stupidity” is just as worthless as ascribing it to “evil”. It is a moralizing account that cannot be usefully applied as systemic critique because it is all supposedly a matter of personal virtue.

  People are racist as a strategy to prosper, first and foremost. It is not until you understand racism as a social strategy that you can fight it.

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  • flashgnash@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I can’t say I do understand it as a social strategy, I would hazard a guess it’s something like “if we make this group enemy #1, we can get lots of people rallied behind us and they won’t pay attention to the horrible things we do”?

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    • GarbageShoot@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think it’s a bit ancillary but yes, one of the benefits for the racist is that by defining others as being part of the outgroup, they place themselves in the ingroup and thereby have people they can rely on with a common cause they both oppose (the flourishing of the minority group).

      But probably the most concrete reason is economic (I was using “social” in its broadest sense), specifically that the brutal marginalization of minorities pushes them into the position of an underclass, whose labor value is the most exploited, meaning where ever the poor racist ends up in life, it is less likely to be there at that bottom rung, while the richer racists get cheap labor.

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• Cummunism@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  ah yes, the free market will fix it. the “marketplace of ideas.”

  gtfo

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• HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  and if you kept doing it, would you be asked to leave? would your “free speech” be “violated” by exclusion from decent society?

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• Nakoichi@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Nah dude I just said that people should be prevented from spreading Nazi or Pedo shit and you come in here with your contrarian bullshit.

  Free speech does not, and frankly should not exist.

  You said something horrible in your implicit defense of Nazi and Pedo shit being allowed to be spread. Now you are getting shunned for it. How’s that working out for you?

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• CyborgMarx@hexbear.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  if I were to say something horrifically racist in pretty much any company I can be fairly confident I would be told exactly where to shove it though

  What Saturday morning cartoon do you live in bro?

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