Comment on [deleted]
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 1 year agoSorry, made edits while you were responding. Covers some issues you have with it.
Comment on [deleted]
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 1 year agoSorry, made edits while you were responding. Covers some issues you have with it.
Objection@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Well, I’m a leftist, so naturally I believe that using money on domestic spending to help people is preferable to spending money on bombs to kill people. That’s like, most of what it means to be a leftist. I would like to think that this is the natural, base assumption, and that the argument in favor of military spending is the thing that has to be proven.
Image
If you’d like, I could go on about the many, many domestic crises we’re facing due to insufficient public funding, everything from healthcare to education to even basic infrastructure like bridges. Seems like a bit of a tangent though.
Ultimately, whichever position is “correct” doesn’t really matter. If you don’t address domestic problems then you’re probably going to lose the election and then you don’t get any say in what happens at all, which is, you know, what happened.
It’s been like 80 years of unjustified conflicts that have consistently made the world a worse place before you can find any conflict where US bombs were actually used to improve anyone’s life, including a twenty year long quagmire that we just got out of before this. Despite making things worse for everyone, pretty much every conflict whether it was Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc were entered into with widespread popular support and they all had the exact same justification: that the other side was just like Hitler and they would keep expanding forever unless we got involved. It’s a wonder to me that there’s anyone who still believes in “benevolent interventionism.”
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
That isn’t “what happened”. What happened was the public got gamed by domestic and foreign propaganda + some sprinkles of misogyny and racism.
Bidens admin was one of the best in a long time and was infinitely more productive than the orangutan could ever dream of being.
But because Biden was too stubborn to not go for a second term, Kamala was placed in a shit position with only 3 months to build a campaign/image, and despite her situation she still performed insanely well because she’s also infinitely more competent and intelligent than the orangutan currently in the white house.
Voters are so fucking dumb and uninformed, that the most googled thing in a bunch of states on election day was “did Biden drop out?” Then decided to vote for the old orange criminal loser, who tries to steal the 2020 election and a few weeks before was ranting on TV like a senile grandpa about the Haitians “eating the cats and the dogs”.
Objection@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Nonsense take. Biden dropped out because his brain was melting and it got to a point that nobody could reasonably pretend otherwise, he was also polling like shit, and both of those factors are why he dropped out. Three months is plenty of time to build a campaign, it’s comparable to election seasons in other countries, if anything, it was more advantageous to Kamala for her to be able to skip the primary, especially considering how badly she did in the 2020 primary.
Conditions declined under Biden, in part due to a global wave of inflation that caused incumbent parties to be unseated in many elections around the world. Kamala failed to distinguish herself from Biden’s economic policy despite the fact that purchasing power has declined, and followed his unpopular Israel policy as well.
Your narrative is heavily biased, it’s designed to absolve democratic candidates of any and all blame and shift it onto the voters rather than looking at what actually happened. If the democrats fail to learn from their mistakes, they will keep making them again and again.
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
No idea why you’re commenting on why Biden did/didn’t drop out as I didn’t even give a take on that. Fighting a ghost for no reason, but ok. For Kamala personally it was better that she didn’t have to go through primaries, but it’s worse for the Dems. Obviously.
Yes inflation was the #1 cause, which wasn’t Bidens fault. US also recovered from the pandemic better than peer economies and earned the title of “economic envy of the world”, thanks to his administration.
People got brainwashed regardless into blaming him for inflation. My argument still stands.
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
You’re arguments will require more nuance than “I’m leftist who thinks guns and killing is bad”.
You don’t think the world was better off after US intervention in WWII? Don’t you think more lives would’ve been saved if the allies had been stronger sooner?
The defense of Ukraine is the most justified use of armament in a very long time.
Objection@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
As I said, that is the one, singular time in the last 80 years of war that military intervention benefitted anyone in any way. Every conflict is “the most justified use of armament in a very long time.” Y’all just think you’re special because you’re living in the present and think everyone in the past was just dumb, it’s hubris. Bush went into Afghanistan with like a 90% approval rating. There was near-universal agreement that the conflict was justified. 20 years later and millions dead, we have nothing whatsoever to show for it.
I was alive when that war started, and I was part of that 10% who never approved of Bush, and people accused me of being a terrorist sympathizer when I said I thought we should turn the other cheek. The same sort of people now call me a Russian bot or Putin shill for advocating diplomatic solutions now. But I was completely vindicated and they were all dead wrong.
It’s funny that you can’t help but turn to the WWII example even after I preempted it. It’s because it’s an easy, go to justification that you can just plop on to any war ever. If that’s all it takes to get you to support a war, you would’ve supported Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Vietnam, and Korea. The historical record of “wars justified by pointing to WWII” is absolutely abysmal.
But sure, I’ll grant that there are times when the use of force is justified, when you can make a clear argument as to how the average person will materially benefit from it. You can’t do that with this war, except by plugging in the generic WWII line, which is bullshit now just as it always is. The reality is that quality of life is not very different between Ukraine and Russia, it’s just a question of which group of capitalists gets to exploit people.
Again, I want to make the point that regardless of whether you agree or disagree, there are a lot of people who have soured on the idea of “benevolent interventionism” and on this conflict specifically. I’d also mention that I predicted Americans would eventually lost interest in the conflict and move on, as is happening now. We never had a real material stake in the conflict, Russia doesn’t pose an existential threat, and Americans are easily excitable but have goldfish memories. Enthusiasm was always going to wane so unless the conflict was resolved quickly it was always going to result in a loss, and the only question was how long the meat grinder would have to keep running before people could accept it.
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I’m impressed with how much you need to type to say absolutely nothing of substance. The comparison to WWII is there because it’s the most apt, Putin even copy/pasted the same excuses Hitler used to invade Czechoslovakia. So if you have a problem with the completely adequate comparison to WWII go complain to him or maybe just inform yourself on both conflicts. Otherwise your insinuation that this is no different from anyone else who was incorrect about their reasoning for war just ends up being empty garbage.
Americans at least had to get hit with 9/11 to go mad enough to start an unjustified war in Iraq, what’s Russia’s excuse?
“It’s not an existential threat”, do things need to become existential before you tend to them? What kind of brainlet argument is that?
Americans are losing interest in the defense of Ukraine because Russian propaganda is working its way through the smooth brains in the states. Nobody is surprised.