sweng
@sweng@programming.dev
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Obviously the 2nd LLM does not need to reveal the prompt. But you still need an exploit to make it both not recognize the prompt as being suspicious, AND not recognize the system prompt being on the output. Neither of those are trivial alone, in combination again an order of magnitude more difficult. And then the same exploit of course needs to actually trick the 1st LLM. That’s one pompt that needs to succeed in exploiting 3 different things.
LLM litetslly just means “large language model”. What is this supposed principles that underly these models that cause them to be susceptible to the same exploits?
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Moving goalposts, you are the one who said even 1000x would not matter.
The second one does not run on the same principles, and the same exploits would not work against it, e g. it does not accept user commands, it uses different training data, maybe a different architecture even.
You need a prompt that not only exploits two completely different models, but exploits them both at the same time. Claiming that is a 2x increase in difficulty is absurd.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Oh please. If there is a new exploit now every 30 days or so, it would be every hundred years or so at 1000x.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Ok, but now you have to craft a prompt for LLM 1 that
- Causes it to reveal the system prompt AND
- Outputs it in a format LLM 2 does not recognize AND
- The prompt is not recognized as suspicious by LLM 2.
Fulfilling all 3 is orders of magnitude harder then fulfilling just the first.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
LLM means “large language model”. A classifier can be a large language model. They are not mutially exclusive.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Why would the second model not see the system prompt in the middle?
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
I’m confused. How does the input for LLM 1 jailbreak LLM 2 when LLM 2 does mot follow instructions in the input?
The Gab bot is trained to follow instructions, and it did. It’s not surprising. No prompt can make it unlearn how to follow instructions.
It would be surprising if a LLM that does not even know how to follow instructions (because it was never trained on that task at all) would suddenly spontaneously learn how to do it.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
I’m not sure what you mean by “can’t see the user’s prompt”? The second LLM would get as input the prompt for the first LLM, but would not follow any instructions in it, because it has not been trained to follow instructions.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
No. Consider a model that has been trained on a bunch of inputs, and each corresponding output has been “yes” or “no”. Why would it suddenly reproduce something completely different, that coincidentally happens to be the input?
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
You are wrong. arxiv.org/abs/2402.18243
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
That someone could be me. An LLM needs to be fine-tuned to follow instructions. It needs to be fed example inputs and corresponding outputs in order to learn what to do with a given input. You could feed it prompts containing instructuons, together with outputs following the instructions. But you could also feed it prompts containing no instructions, and outputs that say if the prompt contains the hidden system instructipns or not.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
How, if the 2nd LLM does not follow instrutiond on the input? There is no reason to train it to do so.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Only true if the second LLM follows instructions in the user’s input. There is no reason to train it to do so.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
The second LLM could also look at the user input and see that it look like the user is asking for the output to be encoded in a weird way.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Can you explain how you would jailbfeak it, if it does not actually follow any instructions in the prompt at all? A model does not magically learn to follow instructuons if you don’t train it to do so.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
You are using the LLM to check it’s own response here. The point is that the second LLM would have hard-coded “instructions”, and not take instructions from the user provided input.
In fact, the second LLM does not need to be instruction fine-tuned at all. You can jzst fine-tune it specifically for the tssk of answering that specific question.
- Comment on Someone got Gab's AI chatbot to show its instructions 4 weeks ago:
Wouldn’t it be possible to just have a second LLM look at the output, and answer the question “Does the output reveal the instructions of the main LLM?”