Comment on Pademelon
RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 2 weeks agoUnfortunately I’ve got to disagree with you from the outset, they do in fact express emotions, having witnessed one of my pets feel less inclined to partake in activities he very much normally enjoyed when his compatriot of a different species eventually passed away due to age. That is one clear example I’ve observed on my own, several times in a couple of different species over the years (unfortunately).
It’s a bit pedantic, in truth, to state that these animals don’t feel human emotions. Do all of us experience ennui for that matter? Envy, to the same level as one another? Which leads to a paradox of how one defines a conscious, human mind at all, if it were indeed based only on what emotions are present when presented with a similar stimulus.
Further, I’m noticing that you’re focused on dancing around “are they human”, not “are they conscious”, a more interesting & insightful question. Unfortunately, I’ve noticed this tactic among people who don’t want to feel bad about eating other conscious beings. If you eat other passengers on this ship called earth, so be it, but avoid the cowardice that comes with assigning them lower value in a pseudo-intellectual manner.
Do you think animals are capable of being curious, even when there’s no impetus for them to be? I certainly do.
NielsBohron@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
As noted elsewhere, this is an ongoing philosophical discussion called The Problem of Other Minds. I’d link it, but since you can’t be bothered to read the links already present, I don’t think there’s much point.
You’re missing the point that all humanity, collectively, as a species has largely the same senses, evolutionary history, and brain structure. Therefore, despite experiencing the emotions differently and to different extremes, we are mostly capable of experiencing the same emotions. Take away that shared brain structure and shared evolutionary history, and it’s a very large, unfounded assumption to think that other species have the same emotions.
No, I literally agreed with you that consciousness is a spectrum and that most life falls somewhere on that spectrum. Buy hey, go ahead and ignore that so you can build yourself a strawman. I never said anywhere that I eat meat, so you’re just imagining things so you can build an argument against a statement I never made.
This sentence right here is everything I need to know about your stance. You’re either not willing to consider or able to understand that different species experience consciousness and emotion as an evolved trait, and when the evolutionary drivers are different, the emotions are different. Any species that evolves the ability to be curious will have done so because it’s an evolutionary advantage, but if the evolutionary pressure and the senses and the literal brain structure is different, then the emotion of “curiosity” will be different. Assuming that other species experience curiosity the same way as humans is exceptionally close-minded.
You’re not doing other species any favors by anthropomorphizing them; you’re just limiting your own understanding.
RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Quite a long, pedantic response.
I didn’t in fact read your other links, nice to see you’re unable to imagine others having lives and limited time. At no point did I say you ate meat, but that you are using similar tactics.
Curious, how much writing you do when all I ask is whether you think animals experience curiosity, and how much of it doesn’t have anything to do with that question.
Rolling back through your overly elaborate discussions here, you’ll note that I never said humans and animals had the same emotions, nor to the same level we as a species do. But I do say what they have is analogous, and that the line between anthropomorphism and observation can itself be a fuzzy concept.
Do you understand that, or will you resort to ad hominem again?
NielsBohron@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You seem unable to distinguish between nuance and pedantry, so it’s unlikely that we will be able to have a productive conversation that receives around nuance.
Have a nice day.
RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Hmm, I don’t think that’s true either. You as well, stranger.