Comment on Is this just how it’s gonna be till Election Day?

• Cryophilia@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Then you also have to say that race is a continuum, and, therefore, any arbitrary line on that continuum a social construct.

  Well by that definition fucking everything is a social construct. Which, sure, there’s a decent philosophical argument that even reality is a social construct, but it makes it impossible to discuss anything if you get hung up on that.

  I’ve got a secret to let you in on: aside from mathematics and some physics, literally everything is categorized based on arbitrary lines on a continuum. Taxonomic classification. Whether an object is a planet or not. “Ocean” vs “sea”. Macro vs micro economics. Every single thing that is classified, a person or group of persons had to make a decision and in some cases that decision was not very clear or easy.

  That doesn’t mean it’s a pure social construct, and it definitely doesn’t mean the categories are invalid. It means they’re blurry at the boundaries, like all things are. It means they’re part of a continuum, like all things are. It does NOT mean or imply that the categories are invalid.

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  • barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Well by that definition fucking everything is a social construct.

    Nope. That humans generally have five fingers is not a social construct, it’s an (emergent) property of our genome.

    Whether Harris is sorted into “white” or “black” OTOH is based on a social construct: The US’s conception of race is not based on physical traits but social realities. It harkens back to the one drop rule which is complete BS when it comes to biology, what matters in her being sorted into “black” is not her phenotype (quite light skin, temperate climate nose, …), but that a portion, at least a drop, of her ancestry comes from black slaves. That’s a social context, not a biological one.

    Even more obvious is Obama, actually: He’s not a descendant of slaves. So it’s not even heritage which dictates whether you’re black in the US, but whether your phenotype looks like you possibly could be.

    Let me end with Epictetus:

    These reasonings are unconnected: “I am richer than you, therefore I am better”; “I am more eloquent than you, therefore I am better.” The connection is rather this: “I am richer than you, therefore my property is greater than yours;” “I am more eloquent than you, therefore my style is better than yours.” But you, after all, are neither property nor style.

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    • Cryophilia@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The US’s conception of race is not based on physical traits but social realities.

      This is the fucking bullshit that makes me want to bitch slap all you academic morons who keep insisting that race is a social construct. It’s so goddamn fucking annoying. YOU JUST FUCKING ASSERT THIS. FUCKING A PRIORI. And then you use that bullshit assertion to build the world’s biggest fucking straw man.

      It’s so goddamn stupid and also so smug at the same time, which is a rage-inducing combination coming from anyone. But especially from Kaeieghlyyn who somehow spent 4 years in college studying racial inequality without ever stepping foot in a ghetto.

      No one ever gave a shit about the “one drop law”, not even in the racist South where it existed, unless someone needed an excuse to exercise power over someone else. If you pass as white you are, for all intents and purposes, white.

      How does one get to the situation where they pass as white?

      Their parents could pass as white! At least one of them. It’s an inherited characteristic, which is what race is. That’s it, that’s the whole thing. Race is a bundle of inherited physical characteristics sorted by commonalities.

      That humans generally have five fingers is not a social construct, it’s an (emergent) property of our genome.

      But some humans have different numbers of fingers! Some have four, some have six! Some humans are born without hands! Therefore your entire system of categorization is invalid! You cannot classify things in any way, because exceptions might exist! Literally everything is a social construct!!!

      Or, you know. Alternatively. Categorizations are valid despite the fact that exceptions exist.

      Don’t “end with” a fucking quote from a fucking philosopher. It’s the bitch icing on a giant cake of smugness. I’m happy to debate this with you but for the love of christ at least pretend to be fucking humble. Also your quote is stupid, because it’s referring to the type of straw in your straw man. You’re trying to explain some shit that doesn’t matter, because your entire premise is wrong.

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      • barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        YOU JUST FUCKING ASSERT THIS. FUCKING A PRIORI.

        No. Case in point: I mentioned how Harris has lighter skin than many a Sicilian, and also very much has a temperate climate nose. These are not, in the slightest, phenotype traits typical of sub-saharan Africa mostly Nigeria thereabouts where most of the slaves trafficked during the Atlantic slave trade where from.

        If you can’t see that then I suggest you visit an optometrist.

        If you pass as white you are, for all intents and purposes, white.

        Then why is Harris considered black? What does “passing” mean, here? Does it really have anything to do with phenotype, or is it cultural?

        But some humans have different numbers of fingers! Some have four,

        That’s a misexpression, the genome codes for five. And even then: Having six fingers is a physical, objective, trait. Harris being black isn’t, phenotypically she could just as well be Italian.

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