Comment on Workers Create Value

• fcSolar@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Alright, firstly, I think you’re mistaking me as advocating for capitalism. I’m not. Whilst I’m not a fan of labels (they’re so easily contorted away from their original meanings by those seeking to undermine the ideologies they describe), I believe “Socialist” would reasonably describe my beliefs.

  Secondly,

  […]authoritarianism isn’t the end goal of ML.

  I think you’ve got that backwards. Marxism-Leninism starts with democratic means, then implements an authoritarian regime.

  […]can you tell me what the end goal of this system even is?

  No, because there isn’t one. Capitalism actively punishes any form of forethought or long-term planning.

  […]The end goal of Marxist-Leninism is a classes society where each person contributes what they can to society and receives back what they need to live a fulfilling life. They are extremely different.

  In theory, maybe. Just like in theory Capitalism self regulates through competitive pressures, or whatever nonsense it is that Capitalists spout.

  I’m more concerned with actual effects, and empirical evidence than hypotheticals. Authoritarian regimes invariably turn oppressive, one way or another.

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  • Grayox@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Capitalism does not self regulate, it consolidates. You should try reading Marx and Lenin’s actual writings, you seem very earnest and dont come off as a troll. There are multiple free audio recordings on YouTube of their works. Humanity must escape the all powerful driving forces of the profit motives Capitalism enforces or perish off the face of this earth. That process if it is to take place will appear extremely authoritarian to those who value profit above all else.

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    • fcSolar@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Capitalism does not self regulate[…]

      Correct, hence “In theory” and “nonsense” in the words surrounding that phrase.

      You should try reading Marx and Lenin’s actual writings[…]

      I certainly would like to read at bare minimum some of Marx’s works, but ADHD is really not conducive to being able to read even mildly long texts, like I couldn’t even get all the way through Einstein’s Why Socialism?.

      There are multiple free audio recordings[…]

      Audio is even worse on that front, as I’ll end repeatedly tuning parts out and have to go back and listen to parts again, which just isn’t good for motivation.

      […]you seem very earnest[…] I like to think so at least. I just don’t like when people fall into the “A is bad, B opposes A, therefore B is good” trap.

      Humanity must escape the all powerful driving forces of the profit motives Capitalism enforces[…] Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

      That process if it is to take place will appear extremely authoritarian to those who value profit above all else. They may attempt to paint it as such, but it need not actually be so. Even if that process were to take the form of a violent revolution (which, to be clear it doesn’t need to.)

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      • Grayox@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        youtu.be/igfycERc6Js?si=39naQ0WCyfa0oxgW i gotchu

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      • Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I like to think so at least. I just don’t like when people fall into the “A is bad, B opposes A, therefore B is good” trap.

        I do think this is a bit of a thought-terminating cliche. It implies people who are actively recommending reading and understanding the theory that supports their beliefs so you can better judge for yourself are just assuming means from ends.

        In reality, Marxists have to read Marx to understand his critique, his philosophy, and his recommendations, because it simply isn’t taught in western education. Lenin is even more unknown to the average person.

        Grayox isn’t telling you that you must agree with them, but suggesting reading the same theory they have so you can better discuss it.

        Just my 2 cents.

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