Comment on The Billionaires have spent a fortune making sure you hate Socialism.
Tja@programming.dev 1 day agoI didn’t handwaive, I rejected your lies. I guess the next step is you requiring me to prove a negative.
I think holodomor and katyń do stand alone. You should also know what Soviet tanks in Prague and Budapest did. How much hand holding do you need?
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
I already explained that the 1930s famine was caused by weather disaster combined with underdeveloped, feudal agriculture that managed to complete collectivization by the mid-1930s, which is why famine never happened again outside of wartime. I already explained that the ammunition used in Katyn was German manufactured, and the execution method common among the Nazis and unheard of among the Soviets. I’m aware that the Red Army intervened in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, as was their legal right to stop fascist counterrevolution. None of this has anything to do with allegations of genocide or settler-colonialism.
It isn’t that I need handholding, it’s that you offer absolutely nothing but a hope that simply throwing buzzwords at someone that has done the due diligence of researching these topics as part of becoming a communist will mean anything to me. You need to actually present evidence, construct an argument, not entirely ignore factual information that goes against your fragile narrative. It’s disappointing at minimum because the conversation can never go anywhere if you operate purely on reflex.
Tja@programming.dev 1 day ago
Yes, you already told those lies.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 23 hours ago
Did the Soviet Union secretly have industrialized agriculture, complete with combine-harvestors used at a mass-scale, before 1930?
The shell casings found in Katyn proved definitively that the mass execution could not have been carried out before 1941, as the ammo had manufacturing dates. This squarely puts the Soviets out of reasonable responsibility, but to add onto that, the ammo itself was German, and the execution method common among Nazis.
In both Hungary and Czechoslovakia, CIA-backed forces sought to increase ties with the IMF, overthrow socialism, and restore capitalism. These were not unified movements supported by the masses, but insurrectionary movements with support among the far-right domestically and imperialist bourgeoisie internationally. MI-6 armed Hungarian counterrevolutionaries, who set Nazis free from prison to aid in their efforts, who then went on to lynch Jews and communists in Hungary as widely reported even by the New York Times.
This is all factual account, and simply labeling them as “lies” does not get us an ounce closer to the truth, it only reinforces how fragile your narrative is when you cannot meaningfully contest factual information accepted even by liberal historians, who work from the same basic set of facts to provide a more anti-communist version of history. They cannot directly state the absurd, like the idea that the USSR had developed agriculture in 1930, or that the shells found during an excavation of Katyn were manufactured in 1941.
What is your goal, here? To legitimize your own views for an audience of nobody? To convince me of your views? Neither seems to be working for you.
Tja@programming.dev 18 hours ago
Yes, either every historian (Including soviet and Russians), and the freaking Russian duma is lying… or you are. Wonder which one…