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Comment on Fewer People 55-And-Over Choose To Work. But Why?

TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

Guys… Just because there is a decline in people choosing to work, it does not mean more people are doing so because of ageism. First of all 50 and over have historically shared a disproportionately large chunk of the job market. Younger baby boomers and older genx just held onto their positions longer than prior generations. Now that they are getting older and their stock portfolios now represent a huge portion of middle and upper class wealth, they are finally choosing to retire.

If you look at the date people 45 and over have the lowest unemployment levels on the market, and they are being unemployed at the same pace as everyone else.

I think you guys are just experiencing the same issues everyone else is in a market where people are hiring less frequently and employees are staying in positions longer. You probably just aren’t used to it compared to the younger generations where this has been a norm for their entire careers.

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schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Perhaps the higher employment rate of 50+ is just based on them already having a job and keeping it.

What you want to look at is at people who are looking for a job.

Are 50+ year olds getting hired at lower rates than younger cohorts?

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- TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  Perhaps the higher employment rate of 50+ is just based on them already having a job and keeping it.
  
  Yes, that is one of the things I spoke about. That age bracket has experienced the most stable economy America has ever had and has thus experienced relatively low levels of unemployment.
  
  What you want to look at is at people who are looking for a job.
  
  That is the unemployment rate. Which they are the lowest bracket in.
  
  Are 50+ year olds getting hired at lower rates than younger cohorts?
  
  I haven’t seen any evidence to support that?
  
  eeoc.gov/chart-data-older-american-worker-age-dis…
  
  Let’s actually examine the statistics they are utilizing.
  
  Chart 1: Older Workers Represent less than 5 Percent of New Hires in Most Establishments
  
  Makes sense, they have the lowest unemployment rate, meaning they are searching for jobs less often.
  
  The Older the Workers’ Age Group, the Lower the Level of Education
  
  Also makes sense… Older generations did not have to achieve as high of an education to remain competitive.
  
  A Third of Private Pension Plans Exclude Workers Hired at Age 55 and Over Half at Age 60
  
  That’s how pensions work…? Most people at age 55 and older are going to rollover their 401k into a IRA as most 401k require a set amount of time until they become vetted.
  
  Long-Term Unemployment Falls More Heavily on the Older Worker
  
  Yeah, makes sense. Older more experienced workers are able to hold out longer to find a job that matches their experience levels and pay expectations.
  
  None of these statistics substantiate the claim that older people are being discriminated against.
  
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  - schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Okedoke. Try dodging this one, Neo.
    
    I study hiring age discrimination under two different hiring procedures. In one, age is revealed simultaneously with other applicant information, and the job offer rates are much lower for older than for younger job applicants. In the second, interview selections are based on detailed, age-blind online applications, while subsequent interviews are not age-blind. In this case, older applicants are not underselected for interviews, but face a lower job offer rate after in-person interviews. The combined evidence is consistent with age discrimination. The smaller age difference in job offer rates under the second hiring procedure suggests that “blinding” part of the selection process may reduce discrimination.
    
    jhr.uwpress.org/content/59/1/1
    
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    TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I would have to actually have access to the methodology of the experiment and their sample population and size to make an educated critique. There are a lot of different variables that could be at play.
    
    I’m not trying to claim that age discrimination does not happen, just that whatever discrimination exists is not reflected by the available unemployment data.
    
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MasterBlaster@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Someone else already got to it before me to show that ageism is really a thing. However, I still want to comment.

The dirty little secret about unemployment statistics in the United States of America is that it only counts people who are considered searching for work.

Searching for work means they’re receiving unemployment benefits. My benefits ran out six to eight months ago. I am not considered unemployed. Consistently, month after month, the percentage of the population that is in the workforce is decreasing. I believe that Vickie was called the workforce participation rate. This is why the unemployment rate is so low. Everybody who can’t find a job and finally gives up drops off the list.

I saw a figure that I can’t get the source for at the moment that states we have about a 14% rate of people who are unemployed who want to work.

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- TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  Searching for work means they’re receiving unemployment benefits. My benefits ran out six to eight months ago. I am not considered unemployed.
  
  The department of labour defines it as anyone receiving benefits or still seeking employment. Seeking employment is defined as making specific efforts to find a job in the last 4 weeks. So no, that is not correct.
  
  the percentage of the population that is in the workforce is decreasing. I believe that statistic is called the workforce participation rate.
  
  The labour participation rate keeps track of the percentage of the civilian non-institutional population (ages 16 and older) that is either working or actively looking for a job
  
  It has been in decline since the year 2000 largely due to the baby boomers reaching retirement age.
  
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  - stringere@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Searching for work means they’re receiving unemployment benefits. My benefits ran out six to eight months ago. I am not considered unemployed.
    
    The department of labour defines it as anyone receiving benefits or still seeking employment. Seeking employment is defined as making specific efforts to find a job in the last 4 weeks. So no, that is not correct.
    
    And how does the department of labor measure the number of people still seeking employment. What data are they gathering to measure that. Where are they getting it?
    
    www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm#unemployed
    
    People are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities:
    
    Contacting:
    
    An employer directly or having a job interview
    
    A public or private employment agency
    
    Friends or relatives
    
    A school or university employment center
    
    Submitting resumes or filling out applications
    
    Placing or answering job advertisements
    
    Checking union or professional registers
    
    Some other means of active job search
    
    Passive methods of job search do not have the potential to connect job seekers with potential employers and therefore do not qualify as active job search methods. Examples of passive methods include attending a job training program or course, or merely reading about job openings that are posted in newspapers or on the Internet.
    
    Who is not in the labor force?
    
    As mentioned previously, the labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed. The remainder—those who have no job and are not looking for one—are counted as not in the labor force.
    
    A series of questions is asked each month of persons not in the labor force to obtain information about their desire for work, the reasons why they had not looked for work in the last 4 weeks, their prior job search, and their availability for work
    
    I have never seen such a questionnaire when I was unemplyed past being able to collect benefits. 4 weeks after my unemployment ran out I become considered “not in the labor force”. There is no followup program to identify people who are no longer considered in the labor force, yet are still seeking work.
    
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MasterBlaster@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
The oldest Gen X cohort is 60 years old now. we’re not holding on to anything past retirement age… yet.

Note that there are many boomers who are poor and are working because they have no choice. Contrary to popular belief, most jobs were not that cushy over the last 50 to 60 years. pensions were steadily whacked, jobs were sent offshore. Maybe consider listening to the Billy Joel song called “Allentown”.

Gen X is cynical and never believed they were going to get retirement anyway precisely because they watched what happened to the generation before them.

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- TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I included genx because some consider starting in 1960 or 1961, which would make them eligible for retirement.
  
  Note that there are many boomers who are poor and are working because they have no choice. Contrary to popular belief, most jobs were not that cushy over the last 50 to 60 years. pensions were steadily whacked, jobs were sent offshore. Maybe consider listening to the Billy Joel song called “Allentown”.
  
  Yes, but compared to other generations they are doing much better.
  
  Gen X is cynical and never believed they were going to get retirement anyway precisely because they watched what happened to the generation before them.
  
  Lol, what? They watched their parents sell a home they bought for 10k for 400k and they lost all hope?
  
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  - MasterBlaster@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    that straw man you set on fire is nice and warm.
    
    Only a moron or a dishonest debater would look back and not acknowledge the destruction of millions of steel, coal, manufacturing, furniture making, and textile industry jobs, the decline of unions, the shifting of tax burdens, or the elimination of public support. oh, lets not forget the drug addiction all over manufacturing towns throughout the industrialized states.
    
    bravo!
    
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    TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    Only a moron or a dishonest debater would look back and not acknowledge the destruction of millions of steel, coal, manufacturing, furniture making, and textile industry jobs, the decline of unions, the shifting of tax burdens, or the elimination of public support.
    
    Which they at least got to take part in before they voted for the people who destroyed it. They also benefited from the largest growth in wealth in American history. “Baby boomers hold approximately 51.6% of total U.S. household wealth, controlling over $85 trillion. Despite making up roughly 20% of the population, they possess an outsize share of assets compared to younger generations”
    
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HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
younger genx is just getting to where they can get social security. don’t see how that is hanging on to the jobs. In another decade we might see.

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- TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Which is why I said older gen-x? Though generational classes are pretty vague.
  
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  - HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I read younger but figured you meant the one close to boomer. what im saying is they are just hitting retirement age. Im mid X and Im supposed to be working for 10 more years. heck now is supposed to be when Im putting in most for retirement. I would totally retire early now if I could. Thats why I was saying you might see in 10 years but honestly im not sure how older X is doing. I mean I know I was unemployed for over a year in 2010/2011 and was kinda lucky I had a job that held out for so long from that crises. similarly I was lucky to enter a government grant based position back with the first tech crash just after 2000. I mean I know boomers who could of retired with a nice enough setup and did not but given X is just at retirement age and that im not sure how prevalent a decent setup is its kinda a different story. I don’t many have pension plans they are part of.
    
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Who is not in the labor force?