Comment on America continues to fall behind the rest of the world

dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  The modern use of the word Socialism means having significant publicly funded institutions. When people say they want socialism they mean they want more of it, because most likely they already have lots of publicly funded institutions - like police and fire protection, public libraries, unemployment compensation… What they want is more, and Europe has more than the US.

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  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I agree and also would note that “developed” is the current, more sensitive term which specifically seeks to avoid unfair judgement in favor of a term that looks at metrics that measure general well being. You cannot tell me it’s racist to acknowledge and want to improve the quality of life for billions of people who needlessly suffer disease, death, and other miserable preventable (with resources/education) situations.

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• HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Socialism is impossible. It cannot exist with a species like ours that is hardwired for greediness and self-preservation.

  At the end of the day, too many people will look at socialism and see "this is bullshit, why should insert marginalised/oppressed minority get that when insert marginalised/oppressed minority that person identifies with gets less. Or just happen to be staunchly opposed to a population protected by the socialist system.

  It’s idealist. And I fucking hate capitalism. But at the end of the day the very best we can really hope for is capitalism with strong, firmly enforced and well thought out regulations.

  We will get neither just so we are clear. But it’s the best possible type of system in my mind.

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  • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    It cannot exist with a species like ours that is hardwired for greediness and self-preservation.

    In general this is a myth, being a self interested economic agent is something we’re trained to conform to, not something we do instinctually. Which isn’t to say we are naturally suited for large scale cooperation, but what the Hobbesian perspective misses is that whatever behavior you’re assuming is human nature has a context, and that context could be made very different.

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    • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      That’s a pretty interesting point and totally fair. I would like to think we would do better in a different context. My problem is the context for us I (mostly) believe to be inevitable.

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  • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    You’ve convinced me. I will stop wanting socialism now. It can never happen.

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    • podian@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The best they ever have to offer is circular reasoning or no reasoning at all. Makes me wonder why they believe it.

      Do they even realize when they’re mixing feelings (or ideals) with facts? 🤷‍♂️

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      • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Is this an invitation to share more of my reasoning on why I think socialism is impossible? Or was there a circular argument that you heard in what I said?

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    • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      So if I’m understanding you correctly, a constrained capitalism is idealism (fair) and somehow the farther left side of that is more realistic (absurd)?

      If anything you’re making my point for me.

      You want to paint me as some defender of capitalism or accepting of it because of my creature comforts…fill your boots, you don’t know me. But at least get your logic in check.

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      • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Any government is possible. You do not know american history enough or how the government works. If America continues after Donald Trump, then it will be something completely different than what it looked like before him. More and more Democratic Socialists are getting elected. Socialism is more and more likely the more socialists americans elect. My state house of representatives in Kentucky got one more. Times may be changing.

        Your view of humans is wrong btw. You may be projecting.

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      • homoludens@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Analogy: it’s more realistic to cut a tumor out and heal the patient than to keep it growing at an acceptable rate.

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  • teslekova@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    If I’m hard-wired for greed and self-preservation, why do I let people go ahead of me in traffic? Why do I give money to beggars? Why do I vote for people who will raise taxes on me?

    And why do so many other people do these things? If they are hardwired for greed and self preservation? Are they not human?

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    • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Our intelligence allows us to override our base instincts.

      The hardware is self preservation and greed. You raise a human in the wild with no social connection what will you get? A cooperative person? Lol. No.

      So many of you are so confident in your assertion that humans are cooperative by nature. That is laughable. We cooperate because we are smart enough (some of us) to figure out that cooperation is the best path forward. Take all the external factors out, introduce some danger and you’ll see just how cooperative we are…

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      • teslekova@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I disagree with your entire assertion, because there have been plenty of studies done that do not support it.

        Humans are a social species by nature. We help each other on an instinctual level. We evolved that way, because it happened to be more effective for survival.

        The people who behave in the way you describe, helping others only when it benefits them, are called sociopaths. They are unusual, and not the majority. Indeed, one of the ways in which they exploit us for their own gain is that normal humans feel good when they help someone.

        Perhaps you do not feel this. Perhaps you have a bit of sociopathy. This does not necessarily condemn you, btw, most sociopaths do not become monsters, due to the benefits of cooperation that you describe.

        I simply mention it because it may explain why you believe something which is inaccurate.

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  • Bo7a@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    hardwired for greediness and self-preservation.

    Speak for yourself. Some of us are out here building communities with our own blood, sweat, and tears.

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  • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    We are literally hardwired for cooperation, as a hyper social species. Maybe do some scientific research before you go spouting off your garbage political opinions which aren’t based in science.

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    • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Did you take your meds on the day you chose your user name?

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      • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Enjoy the down votes, dumbass.

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  • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Socialism isn’t a binary concept any more than Capitalism is. You can have capitalist activity alongside freely available publicly funded institutions - national parks, libraries, etc. People who say they want socialism usually want a specific list of human needs publically funded. This is perfectly possible in a capitalist economy, as OP’s list illustrates.

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    • HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      So what you’re saying is the ideal system (or at least what most people who say they want socialism think is ideal is capitalism with strong, firmly enforced and well thought out regulations?

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      • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        No, that’s a tremendous oversimplification. I’m saying capitalism alongside publicly funded necessities for survival and wellbeing. Nobody starves, nobody is homeless. If you want it summed up as a slogan how about, “We don’t leave people behind.”

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