Comment on Israel has killed over 20,000 Palestinian children – UN report
realcaseyrollins@hilariouschaos.com 2 weeks agoHistory did not begin in the 1940s. Israel had the land before the Palestinians did. If we’re giving the land of Israel back to its original inhabitants, Israel didn’t steal anything, but we both know that that’s not what this is about.
This is a conflict over land between two groups. That’s it. Some people are mad about who’s winning, whatever.
When it comes to killing kids…turns out, that’s what happens in war. It’s not nice, but nobody ever accused war of being nice. That’s why war is bad.
Hamas kills kids too, so Israel will likewise always have a reason to fight, as long as Hamas exists. Furthermore, Hamas has demonstrated a far greater willingness to do terrorist attacks than Israel. The claim that Israel is worse than Hamas in terms of the ethics of violent tactics is so absurd that arguing with a lobotomized human being would be a better use of my time than debating that point.
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Correct.
Incorrect. There is no historical record showing this. There is historical record of the kingdom of Israel appearing where people were already settled, as the Torah and Bible state. Palestinians show direct lineage to the original people.
Incorrect. The white zionists that invaded in the 1910s, committed genocide during the Nakba, then got superpower support to invade in the 1940s and establish a settler-colonial state for Europe and the US have practically no claim to the land, and have the same blood quantum as white people do to Africa.
It is indeed about the white invasion of Palestine, the creation of an entirely artificial state for “jewish” people.
No, it’s what happens when you kill children. When you directly target children. When you directly have a policy to rape children.
There’s actually no evidence of this.
This is also incorrect. Israel has killed approx. 10 million civilians over the course of its existence. Hamas has killed less than 2,000 total.
This is not an argument, this is a cop out. Israel has been documented raping children as punishment. Hamas has not. Israel has been documented doing indiscriminate bombing campaigns. Hamas has not. Israeli officers have testified that they were regularly ordered to disregard the age of “enemy combatants” and disregard whether or not “enemy combatants” were armed, Hamas is made up of humans and does not target civilians and has never targeted civilians.
realcaseyrollins@hilariouschaos.com 2 weeks ago
Work is really picking up, so I don’t have the time to tear down all of the arguments.
If your argument, though, in regards to Jews not being the original owners of the land, is that they weren’t there first, so they shouldn’t be there, that’s just silly. “Finder’s Keepers” is not an internationally recognized determinant of the ownership of land or property, nor who should live there. Again, when there’s a war (as there have been between the Jews and Palestinians), you lose the rights to your land. If that’s “stealing land”, it is what it is.
Generally, I don’t spend time engaging with “well they were there first” arguments because they are irrelevant, but I figured a reply (unfortunately short, due to the amount of time I have on my hands) was worth it in this case.
I prolly won’t have the time to follow up with this convo, but I wish you the best. Happy Friday!
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
You were making the “they were there first” argument, I was using your logic, specifically, as you set the tone of the conversation and the arguments used therein.
And no, this is not between Jews and Palestinians. There are more Jewish palestinians than Jewish white people. Jews have lived in Palestine continuously since the kingdom of Israel fell.
This isn’t about religion. This is about white invaders coming in, declaring they were the real jews, and started doing genocide on stolen land no one, including the Jews already living there, wanted them.