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No it isn’t 😂

Yes it is.

The part where you said to leave it out of the mnemonic “It should be limited - like Orders - to only Multiplication and Addition”

If you understand what is multiplication and what is addition, then you know what this doesn’t suggest ignoring division or subtraction at all.

Nope. 2/2 is not the same as 2*½. Do you need glasses or something??

OK, teach me. What’s the result of 2/2 and what’s the result of 2*½?

Because 2-2 came first, before we started using Brackets in Maths, by several hundred years

Explain how is that relevant to the discussion. Or to the example I gave, where brackets are only used for readability sake, they’re not changing the results in any way. You might as well note that as -2+2 - see? No scary brackets anymore, same result.

You glibly ignoring the history and rules of Maths 🙄

Well… yes, because we’re not talking about the history, we’re talking about the current rules.

That’s EXACTLY what the mnemonics are for! 😂 Don’t need to understand it, just follow the steps

This whole thread stemmed from the fact that some people were taught PEMDAS while others where taught PEDMAS.

Are you suggesting that the order of operations depends on your maths teacher?

No-one gets confused or angry about that

Wow, let me be the first to welcome you to the Internet! I know it might be jarring at first, but give it time and you’ll get used to the weirdness! Glad to see you joining!

There are textbooks that specifically teach to do it that way

Great! Now find one that actually talks about that, instead of one that talks about the addition of similar monomials, which is a different thing altogether.

Actually, you know what? Never mind - instead just read the part you posted, but slower. Here, let me highlight the important bit:

“Addition of similar monomials is performed by taking the arithmetical difference between the total of the positive and the total of the negative coefficients, giving it the sign of the numerically greater total, and annexing it to the common literal part”

Which actually reinforces my point.

I have never seen any textbook say to do Subtraction before Addition, everyone is taught Addition first

See? This is exactly what I was talking about. Addition is NOT first, unless it’s the first on the right. If subtraction is first, you do subtraction first.

Understanding that you can do them in any order proves there is no problem 😂

Again, let me extend a warm welcome on behalf of everyone on the Internet. I believe you’ll have a great time here.

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mindbleach@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
This guy thinks 3(2+1) gets the wrong answer if you do 3(3) instead of 32+31. They will never learn anything and they will never shut up about it. This trolling bullshit is the only thing I’ve ever seen them comment.

Proceed apace if slapping that down entertains you - but proceed knowing it’s all you’re going to get.

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- Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Oh, I realised that a long ago, but it’s actually a kind of “mental exercise” for me. :) Cheers!
  
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  - SmartmanApps@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    it’s actually a kind of “mental exercise” for me
    
    Yep, mental gymnastics left, right, and centre 😂
    
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    Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Don’t worry, friend! One day you’ll look back at this and think “damn, I really was an idiot back then!”
    
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- SmartmanApps@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  This guy thinks 3(2+1) gets the wrong answer if you do 3(3)
  
  No I don’t, liar. Hilarious that now you’re having to resort to making things up 😂
  
  instead of 32+31
  
  Which can definitely give wrong answers
  
  1/3(2+1)=1/(6+3)=(1/9)
  
  1/3(3)=1/(3x3)=(1/9) same answer
  
  1/3x2+3x1=(3/2)+3 Oops! WRONG ANSWER 😂
  
  proceed knowing it’s all you’re going to get
  
  All you’re going to get from me is facts, correct, as opposed to you who can’t come up with any facts! 😂
  
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  - mindbleach@sh.itjust.works ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Calls me a liar, then says exactly what I said they think. Troll.
    
    Fuck off.
    
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    SmartmanApps@programming.dev ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    Calls me a liar, then says exactly what I said they think
    
    Nope! I never said you get the wrong answer with 3(3) - noted you were unable to show where I supposedly said that - so no, I did not say what you said I think 🙄
    
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SmartmanApps@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

Yes it is

You can say that as much as you want and you’ll still be just as wrong. Noted that, yet again, you are unable to cite any Maths textbooks that agree with you

If you understand what is multiplication and what is addition

Again, the mnemonics are for people who don’t understand, which would be people like you! 😂

What’s the result of 2/2 and what’s the result of 2*½

What’s the result of 2+2? What’s the result of 1+3? Are 2+2 and 1+3 the same? No! 😂 2 apples + 2 oranges = 4 pieces of fruit. 3 apples and 1 orange = 4 pieces of fruit. Is 2 apples and 2 oranges the same as 3 apples and 1 orange? 😂 Anything else you want to embarrass yourself about not understanding?

Explain how is that relevant to the discussion

You’re the one who brought it into the conversation - you tell me! 😂

where brackets are only used for readability sake

You’ll find most people find that less readable. Welcome to why textbooks never use them

they’re not changing the results in any way

Just making it less readable.

Well… yes, because we’re not talking about the history

You are when you start dragging brackets into something that never used brackets for hundreds of years

we’re talking about the current rules

which haven’t changed at all in all that time 😂 2-3 has never and still does not require brackets, same as when Arithmetic was first written.

This whole thread stemmed from the fact that some people were taught PEMDAS while others where taught PEDMAS.

and everyone was taught that the order of DM/MD does not matter. If it did then one of them would not exist

Are you suggesting that the order of operations depends on your maths teacher?

No! You might want to work on your comprehension as well 😂

Wow, let me be the first to welcome you to the Internet!

Been here longer than you probably, and know full well what you said is a lie 😂

Now find one that actually talks about that

Already posted a screenshot of one. You really need to work on your comprehension

the addition of similar monomials, which is a different thing altogether

Set all the pronumerals to 1, and guess what you have - the exact same thing 😂 I see you don’t understand how pronumerals work either

BTW you still have not cited any textbook whatsoever that agrees with anything that you have said, in case you needed that reminder 😂

instead just read the part you posted, but slower.

says person who doesn’t understand that pronumerals can equal 1. 🙄

the arithmetical difference between the total of the positive and the total of the negative coefficients,

Yep, 1a-2a+3a-4a=a((1+3)-(2+4)). Now set a=1 and guess what you have? 😂

giving it the sign of the numerically greater total, and annexing it to the common literal part

You telling me you don’t understand what that means? +4-2=+2. +2-4=-2. Not complicated

Which actually

proves you’re wrong 😂

Addition is NOT first

You know the textbook just literally told you it is, right?? 😂

unless it’s the first on the right

It’s first regardless of where it is. Did the textbook says it depends on where it is? No 😂

Again, let me extend a warm welcome on behalf of everyone on the Internet

Where nearly half of adults have forgotten the rules of Maths, and everyone else knows there is no problem 😂

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- Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  You can say that as much as you want and you’ll still be just as wrong.
  
  That’s the thing - I’m not wrong.
  
  Noted that, yet again, you are unable to cite any Maths textbooks that agree with you
  
  Yet again? You never asked for citations. I also didn’t have to, as you did it for me with your screenshot.
  
  But here you go:
  
  In mathematics, a multiplicative inverse or reciprocal for a number x, denoted by 1/x or x−1, is a number which when multiplied by x yields the multiplicative identity, 1. The multiplicative inverse of a fraction a/b is b/a. Dividing 1 by a real number yields its multiplicative inverse. For example, the reciprocal of 5 is one fifth (1/5 or 0.2) (…) Multiplying by a number is the same as dividing by its reciprocal and vice versa.
  
  Here’s another [source] if you’re allergic to Wikipedia.
  
  Again, the mnemonics are for people who don’t understand, which would be people like you! 😂
  
  Again, the mnemonics, when taught without appropriate context, cause confusion in people like you, who think that the order of operations is set to: Multiplication → Division → Addition → Subtraction, instead of being (M or D, start from the left) → (A or S, start from the left).
  
  Again, the mnemonics, when taught without appropriate context, cause people to think that 9-3+2 is 4, when the actual result is 8, because they think that they have to calculate the addition first.
  
  What’s the result of 2+2? What’s the result of 1+3? Are 2+2 and 1+3 the same? No! 😂 2 apples + 2 oranges = 4 pieces of fruit. 3 apples and 1 orange = 4 pieces of fruit. Is 2 apples and 2 oranges the same as 3 apples and 1 orange? 😂 Anything else you want to embarrass yourself about not understanding?
  
  WTF are you talking about? Where did you get the 1 and 3 from? Also… Do you not know what fractions are…?
  
  You’re the one who brought it into the conversation - you tell me!
  
  You’re so very, very confused by all of this…
  
  You’ll find most people find that less readable. Welcome to why textbooks never use them
  
  I can see why you are finding them less readable - you have absolutely fundamental lacks in understanding of maths. And, sorry to burst your bubble, but maths textbooks all over the world use brackets all the time.
  
  Just making it less readable
  
  Not if you understand what they mean. Which is why they’re confusing for you, I guess.
  
  which haven’t changed at all in all that time 😂 2-3 has never and still does not require brackets, same as when Arithmetic was first written.
  
  Now that I know that you have a fundamental lack of understanding how maths works, I apologise for using the brackets earlier. Let’s try this: you can write 2 - 2 as -2 + 2, or - a slightly less legible version - as 2 + -2. You’ll get the same result, and this inversion is a perfectly “legal” mathematical operation. Which shows you how addition and subtraction are equal.
  
  and everyone was taught that the order of DM/MD does not matter. If it did then one of them would not exist
  
  One more time, let me welcome you to the Internet, I’m sure you’ll have a great time here!
  
  Already posted a screenshot of one. You really need to work on your comprehension
  
  We were not talking about monomials.
  
  Set all the pronumerals to 1, and guess what you have - the exact same thing 😂 I see you don’t understand how pronumerals work either
  
  If you set the pronumerals in addition/subtraction problems to 1, you would have something entirely different. And if you want to do 2x - 2x where x = 1, then your own posted fragment explains that you only need to calculate the arithmetic difference between the total postive/negative coefficients.
  
  The arithmetic difference between -2 + 2 and 2 - 2 is the same, proving - again - that subtraction is equal to addition of a negative.
  
  Which is my point. Which you are proving.
  
  BTW you still have not cited any textbook whatsoever that agrees with anything that you have said
  
  I didn’t have to, you did it for me.
  
  Yep, 1a-2a+3a-4a=a((1+3)-(2+4)). Now set a=1 and guess what you have? 😂
  
  Now do -(2+4) + (1+3) and guess what you have?
  
  You know the textbook just literally told you it is, right?? 😂
  
  I already suggested this: read it again, but slower.
  
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  - SmartmanApps@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    I’m not wrong.
    
    says person who has no evidence whatsoever to show that they are correct, so as I said, no matter how many times you repeat it, you are still wrong 😂
    
    You never asked for citations.
    
    And the questions I did ask you didn’t answer anyway, because you know in both cases it proves you wrong. Notice how I didn’t need you to ask me for evidence to produce it? That’s what people who are backed up by facts can do 😂
    
    you did it for me with your screenshot
    
    Which proved you were wrong 😂
    
    But here you go
    
    Well, here you go proving you have a severe comprehension problem anyway… 😂
    
    Image
    
    Multiplying by a number is the same as dividing by its reciprocal and vice versa
    
    Yep, gives the same result, but does not say that the number and it’s inverse are the same thing 😂
    
    Here’s another source if you’re allergic to Wikipedia
    
    Which also wasn’t a Maths textbook 😂 So far you’re only proving my point that you can’t cite any Maths textbooks that agree with you
    
    Again, the mnemonics, when taught without appropriate context
    
    Which they never are
    
    cause people to think that 9-3+2 is 4
    
    Nope, no-one thinks that. Addition first for 9-3+2 is +(9+2)-3=+11-8=3 same correct answer as left to right, which is why the textbook teaches you to do it that way 😂
    
    If you understand what is multiplication and what is addition
    
    Which you’re demonstrated repeatedly that you don’t, and here we are
    
    who think that the order of operations is set to: Multiplication → Division → Addition → Subtraction
    
    Which is a totally valid thing to do, as is taught by the textbook 🙄
    
    instead of being (M or D, start from the left) → (A or S, start from the left)
    
    Which is also a valid thing to do. That’s the whole point, it does not matter which order you do addition and subtraction 😂
    
    when the actual result is 8, because they think that they have to calculate the addition first
    
    And when they do calculate the addition first, they get an answer of 8, as I just proved a few comments back 😂 Add all the positive numbers, then subtract the total of all the negative numbers. This is so not complicated, and yet you seem to have trouble understanding it
    
    Where did you get the 1 and 3 from?
    
    From an example of how 2+2 and 1+3 aren’t the same thing, even though they equal the same value, which you are now trying to avoid addressing because you know it proves you are wrong 😂
    
    Do you not know what fractions are…?
    
    I’m starting to wonder if you do, given you think 2/2 is the same thing as 2x½ - one has a fraction, the other doesn’t, but you think they are the same thing 🙄
    
    You’re so very, very confused by all of this
    
    says person not remembering that they brought it up to begin with… 😂
    
    Image
    
    you have absolutely fundamental lacks in understanding of maths
    
    says person who thinks doing addition first for 9-3+2 is 4 😂
    
    maths textbooks all over the world use brackets all the time
    
    Not for 2-2 they don’t. Go ahead and cite one. I’ll wait
    
    you can write 2 - 2 as -2 + 2, or - a slightly less legible version - as 2 + -2. You’ll get the same result, and this inversion is a perfectly “legal” mathematical operation. Which shows you how addition and subtraction are equal
    
    Which proves my point that you can do addition and subtraction in any order, given you just admitted that 2-2 and -2+2 give the same result 😂
    
    One more time, let me
    
    deflect from the point, yet again
    
    We were not talking about monomials
    
    No, we were talking about textbooks teaching to do addition first, and you then deflected into talking about monomials, because you knew it proved you were wrong 😂
    
    If you set the pronumerals in addition/subtraction problems to 1, you would have
    
    The exact same thing as an expression written without pronumerals 😂 I see you’re still not understanding how pronumerals work then
    
    difference between -2 + 2 and 2 - 2 is the same, proving - again - that subtraction is equal to addition of a negative
    
    and thus proving again that they can be done in any order 😂 It’s so hilarious watching you prove yourself wrong
    
    Which is my point. Which you are proving
    
    No, you’re actually proving my point 🤣
    
    I didn’t have to, you did it for me.
    
    I only posted things that prove you wrong, but apparently I don’t need to because you are proving yourself wrong 🤣
    
    Now do -(2+4) + (1+3) and guess what you have?
    
    The exact same answer, -2, again proving you can do them in any order 🤣
    
    I already suggested this: read it again, but slower.
    
    It still says add all positive numbers first, then subtract the total of the negative numbers. I’m not sure what you think is going to happen - are you expecting the words to magically change if you read it slowly? 🤣
    
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    Alaknar@sopuli.xyz ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    says person who has no evidence whatsoever
    
    Yes, because I finished third grade in primary school. Do you also expect evidence of gravity?
    
    And the questions I did ask you didn’t answer anyway
    
    Go back and read the comments again. I know they’re getting lengthy, but I’m sure if you put your mind to it, you can find the answers.
    
    Which proved you were wrong
    
    Yeah, if you ignore what the text says and just assume it does what you want, then sure, it proves me wrong. However, if you actually read the letters on the screenshot, you’ll find that it does not, in fact, prove me wrong, it does the opposite.
    
    Well, here you go proving you have a severe comprehension problem anyway… 😂
    
    Oh wow, so you’re also incapable of scrolling down to the sources part of the article…?
    
    Yep, gives the same result, but does not say that the number and it’s inverse are the same thing 😂
    
    Yeah, speaking of reading comprehension - I never said anything like that. I said that, in terms of the order of operations, addition/subtraction and multiplication/division are equal, because they can be inverted (subtraction into addition of negative numbers, division into multiplication of fractions) to achieve, as you observed, the exact same result. Which means that - if you ensure that children learn and understand that concept, you can skip subtraction and division from the mnemonics, because children will understand that - again, in terms of order of operations - division = multiplication, and subtraction = addition.
    
    Which also wasn’t a Maths textbook
    
    OK, how about this: let’s do what grown up mathematicians do: prove that what I linked to is wrong.
    
    Which they never are (…) Nope, no-one thinks that
    
    One more time: welcome to the Internet, I’m sure you’ll find many surprises here, but overall it’s a pretty great place.
    
    Addition first for 9-3+2 is +(9+2)-3=+11-3=8 same correct answer as left to right, which is why the textbook teaches you to do it that way
    
    I like how you’re doing exactly what I’m talking about while still saying I’m incorrect.
    
    Which you’re demonstrated repeatedly that you don’t, and here we are
    
    OK, sure, quote one example equation I did here that proves I’m not understanding these concepts. :)
    
    Which is a totally valid thing to do, as is taught by the textbook
    
    But is not reinforced by the mnemonic itself. Reading comprehension, remember?
    
    Which is also a valid thing to do. That’s the whole point, it does not matter which order you do addition and subtraction 😂
    
    I’m glad I was able to explain this to you. You go ahead and pretend like you’re explaining it to me, I’m just happy you finally managed to understand that.
    
    And when they do calculate the addition first, they get an answer of 8, as I just proved a few comments back 😂 Add all the positive numbers, then subtract the total of all the negative numbers. This is so not complicated, and yet you seem to have trouble understanding it
    
    See above.
    
    From an example of how 2+2 and 1+3 aren’t the same thing, even though they equal the same value, which you are now trying to avoid addressing because you know it proves you are wrong 😂
    
    Why are you bringing 1 + 3 into the mix when the examples were 2 + 2 and 2 * 2? What are you trying to say here?
    
    I’m starting to wonder if you do, given you think 2/2 is the same thing as 2x½ - one has a fraction, the other doesn’t, but you think they are the same thing 🙄
    
    I’m going to ask you a couple of questions so you can research that and then pretend to explain them to me, like you did above:
    
    What is the result of 2 / 2?
    
    What is the result of 2 * ½?
    
    What is the reciprocal of 2?
    
    says person not remembering that they brought it up to begin with… 😂
    
    There’s no confusion from my side. I understand how brackets work and that was a perfectly valid use - for readability’s sake.
    
    says person who thinks doing addition first for 9-3+2 is 4
    
    Now you’re just inventing things I never said. That’s not nice.
    
    Not for 2-2 they don’t. Go ahead and cite one. I’ll wait
    
    It wasn’t 2 - 2, tho. Or did you fail to read that correctly too?
    
    Which proves my point that you can do addition and subtraction in any order, given you just admitted that 2-2 and -2+2 give the same result 😂
    
    Again, I’m glad you’re slowly getting to the point I was making. It’s weird how you’re still phrasing it like I was somehow wrong, but I’m just happy you learned something.
    
    The exact same thing as an expression written without pronumerals 😂 I see you’re still not understanding how pronumerals work then
    
    Considering that’s exactly what I did, how do you see that as me not understanding pronumerals? I’m asking out of sheer curiosity at this point.
    
    and thus proving again that they can be done in any order 😂 It’s so hilarious watching you prove yourself wrong (…) [and the rest of the comment]
    
    You’re so cute when you’re trying to turn this whole argument on its head after realising how silly your initial points were! <3
    
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