Comment on NHS hit by ‘severe drug shortages’ due to Brexit red tape

• bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  But you are still forgetting the main point. EMA allows the nations under it to move drugs around

  Not during shortages, the Single Market doesn’t force anyone to share anything

  If ou need a drug in one nation. That your helth service dosent want to provide. You can buy it yourself and import from another EU nation. As we could in 2019.

  Without a prescription?

  Now you cabnnot unless MHRA also covers it. So any drug created since 2020. Requires 2x the paperwork to even give you the option to buy.

  The MHRA did the vast majority of the certification for the EMA…

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  • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    PS you know cross border prescriptions were legal in the EU. Doctors in the UK could write me an RX and I could take it to Germany to fill. Was a common thing for many who often had to work cross borders. For thing the NHS covered it was easy and needed for my insulin etc. But for things not covered under NICE. Most NHS GPs will be happy to schedule a private appointment and write a non NHS rx. It really was not that uncommon pre brexit. With pre 2020 medication it can still be done. As most Chemists in the world recognise the need for travel (UK tends to require london as our chemists are often tied to NHS supply lines). The issue now is. It is illegal for me to bring medications back in any supply. Such checks did not exist pre brexit.

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    • bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Doctors in the UK could write me an RX and I could take it to Germany to fill.

      So, just a £500 round trip to get a script. The number of people doing that must be minuscule

      Was a common thing for many who often had to work cross borders

      So not common at all then.

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      • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Not uncommon in the UK. Much less so pre brexit as so many companies moved there operations out of the UK. But yes 1000s of people I the UK worked in the EU on and of related to their job. So not a majority. But far from uncommon. And ferries to the EU cost about were very often cheaper then trains in the UK. Heck even plans often are but those cheep flights don’t tend to be regular. Ferries are easy ways to get to the EU cheap and often.

        And within the EU land mass. The open borders make it a drive or often only a freaking bus ride. Copletely invalidating all you bullshit about how the EU ain’t as open as claimed. Just because indevidual governme ts are not forced to share. Because the EU dose not remove soverienty as brexiters keep bullshitting. In no way indicates that cross border deals were not much easier then you claim.

        And you while travelling to the EU was way cheaper then 500. Closer to 100 in petrol and ferry feels when booked in advance. 500 is only a huge cost every few months for the poorest in the UK. Most with an above minimum wage jobs have and will spend that hor helth needs.

        So no that sort of cost in no way indicates it was rare.

        Maybe you need to get out of your bubble a bit. A sizable % of people far from rich are able to spend money on thing that help them work healthier.

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      • C4d@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Close to home think Gibraltar and Northern Ireland. Further afield - I work with people who regularly travel for tasks that require an on-site presence and who have long term health conditions.

        Probably more common than you think.

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  • HumanPenguin@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Nor dose the UK. But your argument is not shortage drugs it was that germany helth agency supplies more then others. If you go to germany and buy drugs. No one can legally stop you crossing the French border. If you pay a priv doc in germany you can buy what ever is available to sell.

    I can tell you right now. Brexit fucked that up for me and many others. And has given us fuck all in return.

    But again its a invalid argumnt anyway. Because the issue is. The NHS germany and every health care agency in the world. Rarely if ever buys drugas directly from astrazenica or phizer GSK etc. (covid was a unique exception) They buy them from huge drug import companies that then sell them to local pharmacies. Who order what they need based on customer load and expectations. The warehouses in the EU are not selling to the warehouses in the UK. Because the paperwork and licencing to do so is a fuck sight more then just a form. It is staff who understand the drugs filling in that form. Who are simply not needed to sell to 26 other countries.

    It really is not complicated to understand why that cost has become higher due to brexit. As I say other things are included. But the brexit extra paperwork is the big reason companies want more money to sell to the UK then to just ship to an other health agency in the EU.

    While at the same time we gain no ability to buy from out of EU nations that we did not have before brexit. Because they need even more paperwork. Because every single drug they sell needs to prove it meets MHRA standards rather then just the post 2019 ones. Meaning more staff who now have to be trained in filling even more UK specific forms that tgese ware houses have no need for when selling in their own demain. Add to that how fucking expensive for both ends it is if that import licence gets filled in wrong. (as we saw happen over covid multiple times).

    And it really only take very minimal understanding of market economics to see why the NHS is having issues and having to ask the gov to authorise higher payments for popular drugs.

    As I keep saying. Brexit is a cause not the only one. The way our NHS is funded (underfunded compared to most other nations) has a huge hit. But the extra work of filling forms and providing data evidence to support those forms is something that has to come from somewhere. And why should pharmacutical warehouses in the EU fund it just because a tiny % over 50% of the UK had fuck all idea how this all worked when they voted.

    Those who voted for it have to accept the cost of their choice.

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    • bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      But the extra work of filling forms and providing data evidence to support those forms is something that has to come from somewhere

      Yep. But forms can be automated and policy can be written to make the UK more attractive for pharma

      While at the same time we gain no ability to buy from out of EU nations that we did not have before brexit

      Other than things like Project Orbis?

      www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-on-project-orbis

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      • C4d@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Project Orbis is about approval (and it seems like a good idea). It isn’t about supply or cost.

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