Comment on Chatbots can be manipulated through flattery and peer pressure

• nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I don’t think you have read the relevant papers or are familiar with LRM (Large Reasoning Models). Which is basically all model AIs (GPT5, Claude, Gemini, DeepSeek). It’s new in the last ~18-24 months

  In a nutshell, they include logical thinking and correct chains of logical thought to the LLM training data, along with tasks like recognizing dogs and predicting next words.

  So yes, they are literally trained to reason the exact same way they are trained to write stories and summarize books.

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  • lakemalcom@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I will 100% admit to not reading papers and keeping up to date. I went ahead and spent about 30m looking up various explanations and summaries of LRMs. Ok, so you take an LLM and tell it to break the problem down first. It’s still not reasoning. It’s running a simulation of a natural language conversation, and giving you the center of mass of the statistical distribution for the intermediate steps. Does this kinda sorta replicate the sounds a human makes? Absolutely. But it’s irresponsible and unethical to make any claims that this is a human like entity you can chat with, or that it is doing any reasoning.

    When I get some time I’ll check this paper out: …cdn-apple.com/…/the-illusion-of-thinking.pdf

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    • nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

      It’s still not reasoning. It’s running a simulation

      As Daniel Dennett once asked: “What is the difference between a simulated song, and a real song?”

      You say it’s not reasoning, but I’ve seen it debug and fix a core dump

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      • lakemalcom@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

        A couple of things:

        • we are talking about chat bots talking to people in this post, and how you can steer the simulated conversation towards whatever you want
        • it did not debug anything, a human debugged something and wrote about it. Then that human input and a ton of others were mapped into a huge probability map, and some computer simulated what people talking about this would most likely say. Is it useful? Sure, maybe. Why didn’t you debug it yourself?

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