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regnskog@lemmy.world 2 years agoOh but we can definitely sketch something, for sure.
- There has to be some degree of truth and reconciliation, and that will not look like “and all the bad people get punished forever”. There’s plenty of sides and plenty of atrocities and people have to somehow get over them. That’s fucking hard and will take generations, but it’s been done before and it can be done again.
- Israel will, technically, have to give up the most. They’re occupying territory in explicit violation of international law, for starters, but they also have a lot more resources generally. Not to mention their export industry in arms, including anti-riot stuff, surveillance tech etc that they explicitly test on their simmering conflict next door. The only way this happens realistically is when the current Israeli line loses national and international support.
- there has to be an expansion of practical rights of Palestinians, and probably in the end a one-state solution where they become Israeli citizens (in a country probably not called Israel anymore) and have equal rights, including voting rights. But at the very least the blockade of Gaza has to end, and Palestinians need the same access to wealth, education, etc as Israelis. Otherwise that’s perfect conditions for resentment that will only get worse.
- this is a special case of the first bullet point, but Palestinians who were driven from their homes during the establishment of Israel will also need some degree of economic compensation for that, and ideally the ability to move back to where they were originally living
redballooon@lemm.ee 2 years ago
Your second bullet point implies that Israel won’t exist at a point of “peace”.
Teodomo@lemmy.world 2 years ago
I didn’t took it to mean “Israel will be erased” but “Israel and Palestina will be fused”. So maybe it won’t be named Israel but Israel-Palestina (kinda like Bosnia-Herzegovina) or something like that. Of course that seems impossible today but who knows, maybe there’s a timeline where that’s the name of the country 500 years into the future.
redballooon@lemm.ee 2 years ago
You think antisemitism will be removed enough in 500 years to allow that? I would be glad if that was conceivable, but that’s something so deeply ingrained in so widely different societies all over the world, I don’t see it happening.
Look into the history of antisemitism to get a feeling how this is different than “just” your usual tension between neighboring ethnicities.
Teodomo@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Yep, I know antisemitism has a long long story, my great grandparents came to my country running away from it at the start of the last century. And islamophobia is going really strong right now too. But I do think there’s higher chances of things like that happening between the years 2000-2500 than between 1000-2000. If the recent pattern with Christianity also happens to Islam and Judaism, fervent religious feeling might diminish in the long term (even if there’s occasional flare-ups here and there) and that coupled with sheer time/centuries might help ease the tensions.
regnskog@lemmy.world 2 years ago
That depends what you mean by “Israel”. I don’t think it can be an exclusively Jewish ethnostate. That means excluding Palestinians who have equal claims to the territory and I don’t see how that can lead to anything but oppression and further cycles of violence.
But sure it can exist as a state. They just can’t do military occupation etc.
redballooon@lemm.ee 2 years ago
There are several highly armed groups and Iran whose explicit goal is to remove Israel from the map, implying removing the Jews there one way or another.
As soon as Israel loses support from the West, it can not push back military, and there will be no diplomatic solution.
regnskog@lemmy.world 2 years ago
Oh, I didn’t mean totally lose support, I agree and that would suck. I meant lose support for the occupation and operations into Gaza. I see no problem defending Israel from an invasion same as I support Ukraine against Russia’s invasion and previously protested against the US’ various invasions and operations.