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barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

People claiming simply to have an “understanding of the cultural context” when speaking of the Palestinian Genocide often do so to avoid criticism for not condemning Israel.

Do those people also call out Israel’s annexations and settlements as illegal?

culturaly underdeveloped and are incapable of ruling themselves

Again: Your words.

I quite clearly pointed to the rooting out of Communists in the East and the regular fostering of Anti-Communists in the West leading to current conditions.

And I pointed you to actual literature. Read it if you don’t want to make a fool of yourself.

All this talk of “shutting off higher mammalian and human insticts” is more Idealism than anything else, it fronts the idea of “fear states” as a genuine mechanism when the fear comes with the fascism.

“Psychology is idealism” that’s a new one. The fear is used, imposed, as a control mechanism. Not just the obvious “do what I say or I hit you” but implicit “wouldn’t it be a shame if…” narratives making alternatives unthinkable. A teacher scolding, shaming a student for not answering quickly enough breeds a life-time of preferring ready-made answers over careful consideration – any ready-made answer: The preference is for answering quickly, not for agreeing or disagreeing with the authority figure. The affective layer of the mind is fine either way, all it wants is to not be shamed for saying “I’ll need a moment to consider”.

I’m being quite orthodox here, actually, what I’m talking about is nothing but the socio-psychological aspect of alienation.

Further, Communism isn’t to be grouped in with fascism and Capitalism, it’s diametrically opposed.

Granted. As far as “communism” means the real existing ML experiments it’s still the same fucking river, though.

and the approval of government in current Socialist states is high.

You know where else approval of the government was high? Nazi Germany. Poll numbers are a thought-terminating cliche, you can do better.

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Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Some do, they just claim Hamas is equally evil for resisting genocide, the good 'ol “two wrongs don’t make a right” adage.

As for East Germany, would you mind stating how your thesis about the government taking an active role in rooting out Nazis somehow made the East more open to fascism isn’t a statement on East Germans being incapable of ruling themselved, and just going along with whoever? You linked literature, sure, but avoided addressing that the West never de-Nazified yet East Germany was thoroughly purged of Communists? Rather than blaming the rise of fascism in modern eastern Germany on the previous antifascist government and the dull acceptance of the eastern Germans due to alienation from politics, why not take an active look at the dynamics at play as the West took over the East?

As for Psychology, no, it isn’t idealism, but your analysis was. In the absence of materialist analysis, you shifted to an assertion that existing in different modes of production shuts off the higher instincts of man. It is true that material conditions shape the ideas of man, but you pivoted that to the idea that existing in a Socialist state dulls the mind, which doesn’t have materialist backing.

Socialism is not “the same fucking river” as Nazism, not to any capacity. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds, it’s a good introductory book and a quick read.

As for Nazi Germany’s approval ratings, that’s not really true, as clearly Holocaust victims weren’t polled. Support for Socialism both within post-Socialist states and currently Socialist states is best explained by the real material achievements they made for the Working Class, as one western study said of China:

“Although state censorship and propaganda are widespread in China, these findings highlight that citizen perceptions of governmental performance respond most to real, measurable changes in individuals’ material well-being. Satisfaction and support must be consistently reinforced. As a result, the data point to specific areas in which citizen satisfaction could decline in today’s era of slowing economic growth and continued environmental degradation.”

I’ll leave you with a Parenti quote I think is fitting, from the same book I recommended:

During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.

If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.

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- barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  As for East Germany, would you mind stating how your thesis about the government taking an active role
  
  If you read what I wrote, then you would know that I actually stated: a) the government didn’t do that and b) it prevented civil society from doing so.
  
  (titles of your links)
  
  West German Government Was Full of Ex-Nazis After World War II
  
  So in the east.
  
  The Purge of Lawyers after the Breakdown of the East German Communist Regime
  
  …lawyers. Gregor Gysi is a lawyer, btw.
  
  All in all you really don’t seem to be particularly knowledgeable about German history. You also don’t seem to be willing to investigate what I gave you, instead falling into a partisan “But SED good therefore they are right” (unironically) and “everything is the fault of the west”. Very predictable, very sad.
  
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  - Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    The quantity and quality with respect to how de-Nazification was handled in the West vs the East was entirely different, and you are erasing that because the East still had some Nazis, while the West was infested with them. This is affirmed by the links I sent, to which you merely read the titles. The lawyer piece, for example, talks about the entire process of de-Nazification with an emphasis on how the Nazi lawyers were treated.
    
    I could do the same low-effort character assassination you levied against me, but if you’re not even going to read the abstracts or intros of the articles I link, this conversation was never going to go anywhere in the first place.
    
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