When you protest against ALP you inform low-information voters (which are the majority, by the way) that both parties are the same as regards climate change.
Can you back up both claims in this statement with any studies, sources etc?
Comment on 'A lifetime of disasters': Young protester interrupts PM's major announcement
null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week agoI can’t believe I need to spell this out but …
As regards climate change ALP is not perfect but they’re infinitely better than LNP.
When you protest against ALP you inform low-information voters (which are the majority, by the way) that both parties are the same as regards climate change.
In a few short weeks either the ALP or LNP will form government. If it’s the LNP they will roll out plans for nuclear power which is really just a license to keep burning coal for another 30 years.
If you’d like Australia to continue deriving it’s energy from coal, then by all means protest the currently sitting government, during an election campaign.
maniacalmanicmania@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week ago
Even if this is true, if people are voting based on climate in the first place then this isn’t going to make them go “well, might as well vote for the LNP” more they’ll go independent or Greens as we saw in the last election.
We have preferential voting anyway, focusing on the big two parties is immensely myopic and a stupid argument that everyone used to silence legitimate criticism of the Democrats before the last US election. (The Democrats lost because they had a shit platform and didn’t care, not because people criticised them)
The main goal of basically every climate activist group right now is to force whoever forms government to do so as a minority. This is both good for climate, and liberal democracy as a whole by helping move beyond a two party system. (Not that I have any love for liberal democracy in any form, but it’s still a positive change)
null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
Sure: It’s a patently obvious observation. End study.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week ago
Just because one party is bad doesn’t mean we should settle for the slightly better one who are still actively burning our future, that’s an absurd argument on the face of it.
We need to call out everyone for the shit they do because the fact is these guys are not good enough, they are not infinitly better than the LNP, they’re marginally better and their entire climate change plan mostly relies on doing nothing and letting industry progress the way it’s already been going.
Rising Tide is not lying about anything and misleading voters, the fact of the matter is Labor is doing all this shit and an election is the best possible chance to force them to be better. If they lose the election then that’s on them for not shaping up and doing better, as people are literally shouting at them to do.
Fuck the ALP and the LNP I won’t settle for ecocide in any form. If the ALP doesn’t change then it doesn’t fucking matter because the end state is going to be the same regardless. We are not at a point where we can sit on our fucking hands and wait for slow change to save us, people are actively dying and we’re blazing past tipping points like there’s no tomorrow.
null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
All I can do is reiterate what I said.
If LNP wins we will continue to burn coal as our primary source of energy for another 30 years.
Is that what you want ?
What can you do to avoid that outcome? The options sure as shit do not include protesting about climate at ALP pressers.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week ago
This is what the ALP is actively trying to do, if you haven’t been following along… They’ve approved new coal and gas extraction projects for 2050 and beyond. You know, when we’re supposed to be at net 0???
They’re not doing anything to prevent this, they’re not taking climate change seriously and they are sucking up to the industry at the expense of everyone else.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week ago
I guess you didn’t read anything I wrote, because as I said, ALP is not doing anything near enough. So yes, we have to protest them and we should. Tell me where I ever said we should vote the LNP in? Protesting ALP is not the same thing as endorsing the LNP and pretending that is, is embarrassing. It’s similarly embarrassing that your acting like this is the one and only election we’ll ever have and that if the LNP win they’ll just hold power for eternity.
The narrative you are pushing right now is harmful and does not get anything done, it’s a delay strategy that gives an objectively terrible party licence to continue being absolutely dog shit.
I’ll say this again, if the ALP ignores what is literally being screamed in their fucking faces and loses the election, then that is on them and no one else. They’ve been in power for three years and have done fuck all with that time to make any meaningful change.
Threatening their power during an election is basically the only chance we’ve got that they’ll listen, I don’t know you and I’ve no clue what you’ve done for this fight, but I’ve watched so many friends sacrifice themselves and be absolutely crushed by the oppression of this government for very minor actions. Their only response to activism outside of the election cycle is to crush it and silence the people most affected.
Nothing else is working and I’m sick and tired of this bullshit getting people killed, destroying entire nations and ruining the chance for anyone to have a bright future.
You can be that asshole while the world dies saying “well isn’t it great the ALP did this instead of the LNP” because that’s all you’re saying right now.
It’s completely moronic to give anyone a free fucking pass to fuck everyone just because they use lube.
null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
That’s exactly what it is.
Taleya@aussie.zone 1 week ago
THIS IS WHAT YOUR VOTE IS FOR.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 week ago
I do vote?
Doesn’t change the fact that voting generally does fuck all in terms of meaningful change, especially as we watch both of these major parties destroy the ability for smaller parties and independents to challenge them.
And so we are essentially left with a choice between being killed, and being killed but they smile while they do it. You change the options you can vote for by protesting, this is an exceptionally important part of modern democracy and it cannot be ignored.
Taleya@aussie.zone 1 week ago
ok no.
That is not how voting works in Australia. At all. Preferential voting means you directly put smaller parties and independents in the house and in the senate, meaning they then have very real power in the Australian government regardless of who is actually PM.
You know how there’s always those articles about the party in power having to negotiate with members to get things happening? Yeah, that’s because of our voting system that put those members from small parties and independents into the seats of power. You’re reading a script that applies more aptly to the US than anything else.
Nbard@aussie.zone 1 week ago
that’s not accurate to the Australian voting system at all, are you sure you’re in the right instance?