Comment on Why The Government Has Infinite Money
gataloca@lemmy.world 1 year agoI’m not going to engage with your personal attacks and you should feel shameful for saying such nasty things to a stranger you hardly know.
The Ukraine-Russia conflict can be viewed in many different ways. One of them is Russia being an aggressor and waging an illegal war of conquest like Nazi Germany, and that’s a valid way to look at the conflict. I’m sure even he would agree of that. However the conflict is also very dangerous, especially with NATO involvement. The biggest threat is actually if the war would escalate into nuclear annihilation because Putin has threatened that if Russia loses, they’re going to start nuking. Have you forgotten about that?
US involvement is the thing that actively saves innocent lives in this conflict. Shooting down missiles, giving ukranian soldiers more protection, and more ways to remove invaders from their lands.
That is your opinion. A missile can be used to shoot a helicopter just as easily on the Ukraine side of the border as on the Russian side of the border.
If we assume that Ukraine would manage to sue for some sort of white peace or extended ceasefire, what would that mean with the supplies that has been lent to Ukraine and the Ukrainian people and all the debt that Ukraine is racking up? Who do you think will have to pay for all that and what would the consequences be for Ukrainians? Probably not very good things. Possibly privatizations, international loans from WTO or other forms of neocolonialism. The intent of involvement from the west is highly suspicious and deserve its own scrutiny.
And what do you think putting and “end” to the conflict would achieve? Ruzzia would resupply and attack in 5 years again.
Maybe so, or maybe there might be a regime change in 5 years? Maybe with some time passing Putin somehow dies? Of sickness, old age or some other reason? In 5 years Putin would be over the average life expectancy of Russians. Maybe the Russians don’t try again in 5 years because they got humiliated this time? The world isn’t static and time changes things.
Second thought released its own video surrounding the Ukraine conflict and in a comment he posted he outlined his positions surrounding the conflict. I quote:
- This war doesn’t benefit the average people of Ukraine or Russia. They’re suffering needlessly for the sake of geopolitical jockeying.
- Sanctions on Russia will only hurt the everyday citizen, not the oligarchs or the powerful. Sanctions are a brutal, inhumane tool and we should oppose them.
- Anti-war is the only principled position. Escalating into a hot war with another nuclear power is a death sentence.
- This conflict should be resolved diplomatically. That must include an end to hostilities, as well as a new agreement that prevents NATO expansion towards “unfriendly” states. NATO is a relic of the Cold War, and it doesn’t do anyone any good. A bomb is a bomb, no matter what language you use to make it seem justified.
This is similar to the things he said in your video you linked. What has he lied about? Can you name even one contradiction? That doesn’t mean that he wants Ukraine to surrender or give up, rather that’s just your interpretation of his stance which is blatantly wrong and has no evidence. The fact that you try to claim otherwise because he calls for peace is just slander.
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
That is the ONLY valid way to look at the conflict. Ruzzia illegaly invaded ukraine both in 2014 and 2021.
He would not.
Those are empty threats, if you have seen the state of Ruzzian equipment you would understand that. The only country that would get annihilated in this conflict would be Ruzzia.
How is that an argument? Both are valid and good ways to protect Ukraine. One less helicopter means one less chance for an innocent ukrainan to be harmed.
Those supplies would be used to defend ukraine and bolster the border with the two fascist nations that border it. Banks have frozen accounts of ork oligarchs, have seized materiel and such. Those can be the start. The international community can band together to help. It would not be the first time.
If Ruzzians are not humiliated on the world stage in a way that wakes up even the most politically dead in the country, nothing will change. If we give them ANY concession, nothing will change. Total and absolute withdrawal, that is what needs to happen.
How hard is it to fucking understand, RUZZIA. INVADED. UKRAINE. People suffer BECAUSE OF RUZZIA, not because of “geopolitical jockeying” Jesus fucking chirst man. The only one who is in fault is ruzzia, if they wanted they could retreat now
Again, wrong. Sanctions have drastically reduced the capability of ruzzia to make new tanks, weapons, and rockets. Thanks to sanctions, ruzzia is unable to make long range rockets that have been indiscriminately killing civilians.
It absolutely fucking isn’t. Once again, tell that to WW2 veterans who have fought and died for the free world. A just society who accepts unjustifiable people and positions is not just.
Holy fucking shit here we go. The myth of NATO expansion. Such a funny lie and I am so happy you brought it up. Thankfully it has been completely annihilated. youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q?si=gN80y0EnM2W1qJuT
It isn’t, if I tried to explain every single contradiction and lie he has spouted in that video i would hit the character limit. Instead, I am liking a debunk of dylan burns and keffals.
youtu.be/hg-9Fa4MbMY?si=kPqzJwEdWBXtJwl8
gataloca@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No you literally couldn’t because you have nothing to say. If you have something of substance to say, say it. Don’t hide between a long and obnoxious reaction video.
The rest of your post is just… ridiculous. You can argue the 4 points he raised to him if you want, but I’d rather choose not to engage with that nonsense since it’s not my arguments.
You’re not wrong about these arguments such as Russia being the aggressor and them being able to retreat. Nobody is disputing those facts. Preferably I would also like Russia to realize that they did wrong, surrender to Ukraine and pay them war reparations, but I live in the real world where that seems pretty unlikely. That’s why I don’t expect for such an outcome, not because I don’t think it’s the right thing to do. You can scream yourself hoarse about what Russia ought to do, but that’s a factor we cannot control and we should approach the conflict with that in mind.
I do agree with him that we should have anti-war and your argument against that isn’t an argument even. War is just a political event where workers are sent to kill other workers. Anti-war is the position of the worker movement and everybody who are social democrat or more left leaning agrees on that fact. Since you think otherwise, you must be a reactionary and are blowing some sort of dog whistle right now.
This is not WW2, this is a war where one country is a nuclear power, the largest nuclear power in the world in fact! The performance of the Russian army during the conflict doesn’t really mean that they cannot launch nukes. Even if their nukes aren’t fully effective, they can most likely still cause tremendous harm and the threat of the nuclear war isn’t just the initial salvo but the retaliation and the threat of nuclear winter. For us who live in Europe, Russia’s arsenal is a nasty and scary threat, but maybe you don’t care because I assume you live in USA and feel more confident? I think that confidence is also misplaced, there’s no defense against nuclear armageddon. If that happens, billions will die and suffer.
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
I live next to Ukraine, I have seen the destruction personally, I have lost people I love and see bullshit when it’s there.
In this “political event,” which I would rather describe as a brutal uncalled for attack, Ruzzia sent its own workers (and prisoners) to go indiscriminately murder any and every ukranian they come across. I agree with your definition of war, never said otherwise.
But okay, I will go through the first minute alone and point out every single lie.
Calling euromaidan a “far right coup” is complete lie, it is ruzzian propaganda. Euromaidan was unilateral and supported by left and right. Neonazis joined it, of course as they saw an opportunity. Since then the far right party has been getting less and less support, today being the lowest.
Calling the new government a puppet regime is disingenuous, just like any of your claims. First government almost immediately held a public vote, thats how zelenski got into government.
It was never a provocation, it was a civilian uprising
They did not plan a proxy war. Ruzzia started this war for its own imperial means. That reality was not swept under the rug, its a blatant fucking lie.
That is just the first minute. Once again, I am not willing to write paragraph after paragraph when all of this has been debunked much more eloquently by Dylan, someone who knows much more than me, your or zero thought.
youtu.be/hg-9Fa4MbMY?si=PMoRahRzIsofExEF
gataloca@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ah you’re Polish then I assume? My condolences and I think that maybe that fact makes you quite impartial toward a narrative where Ukraine is seen as the victim, which I agree to, Ukraine IS the victim here.
Yet you’re pro-war. So you apparently agree with my definition but are also pro-war. Therefore workers should fight each other if the ends justify the means? Is that right?
When a ML says “far right”, he might mean a neonazi, a conservative or a liberal. On the political scale from that perspective a “centrist” would be a social democrat. However the far right party might stand in polls isn’t exactly interesting. If the goal is to make Ukraine compatible with the west like Second Thought claims, then nazi ideology would be counterproductive toward that goal anyway so I’m not sure what you think that proves.
Maybe? I mean if we’re supposed to entertain that argument then we could guess that Russia’s elections in the regions they conquered also prove that there’s a genuine sentiment in breaking off? I don’t think so. Election results isn’t a sign of consent. I would also like to know why he decides to call it a “puppet regime”. At the same time, it’s pretty common for MLs to be suspicious of any cooperation with the west. It sounds like something he would have said on his own channel but maybe it greater detail argue why that is the case.
Okay and you’re sure about this why? In the video Dylan doesn’t give any explanation either why he thinks otherwise. If Ukraine really is a puppet state and the protests were backed by USA, maybe that was the plan?
I have to admit that the things you bring up weren’t the things I expected you to want to highlight since you seemed to argue that he has a different stance toward the conflict between his own channel and the video you posted, which doesn’t seem to be the case. The video you posted of Dylan is just nitpicking on the points presented in the video. Dylan doesn’t give his own evidence to his claims and while the burden of proof is on Second Thought it’s important to realize that he’s talking about this topic to a completely different audience who already are (or at least should be) informed of what he’s talking about. He’s hardly trying to present a case to convince outsiders, so making a nitpicking video against it is very easy, because the format isn’t meant to convince anyone. Why should I be impressed or convinced by Dylan? Come on…